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Andrew Lewis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Carl -- The greens normally run around 10, which I think is perfect for everyday use given the slopes and countours.  At higher speeds, approach shot landing areas require more thought, as the best landing spot to hold a green isn't always on said green, and putting off the green becomes a very real possibility on several holes.  But I still find them very playable.

Tim -- I disagree with you entirely; the correct choice for one-club on that course is clearly a 7-iron.  But I will concede that the 4-hybrid sand shot has me rethinking my full set composition...

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Carl -- The greens normally run around 10, which I think is perfect for everyday use given the slopes and countours.  At higher speeds, approach shot landing areas require more thought, as the best landing spot to hold a green isn't always on said green, and putting off the green becomes a very real possibility on several holes.  But I still find them very playable.

Tim -- I disagree with you entirely; the correct choice for one-club on that course is clearly a 7-iron.  But I will concede that the 4-hybrid sand shot has me rethinking my full set composition...

Andrew:

The cross-handed backwards hybrid sand shot is mandatory from the back bunker on 7.  Its really the only way to hold the green.
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
I'm bumping this thread because I've been thinking about KC and can't wait for this summer to go back.

Tim, awesome thread; Mike, awesome course; Dan, awesome turf.

If it is January, I'm thinking about the Kingsley Club.  Hell, if it is any month, I'm thinking about the Kingsley Club. 

The more great courses I am fortunate enough to play, the more I recognize and see the greatness of Kingsley Club.

So here it is again, my annual bump of this phenomenal thread.
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Morgan Clawson

  • Karma: +0/-0
If it is January, I'm thinking about the Kingsley Club.  Hell, if it is any month, I'm thinking about the Kingsley Club. 

The more great courses I am fortunate enough to play, the more I recognize and see the greatness of Kingsley Club.

So here it is again, my annual bump of this phenomenal thread. - JC


JC,

It's 25 degrees colder here in Minneapolis than it is in Charlotte, so I'm really thinking about it!
Good call. This is definitely one of my favorite threads...

George Freeman

  • Karma: +0/-0
I'm bumping this thread because I've been thinking about KC and can't wait for this summer to go back.

Tim, awesome thread; Mike, awesome course; Dan, awesome turf.

If it is January, I'm thinking about the Kingsley Club.  Hell, if it is any month, I'm thinking about the Kingsley Club.  

The more great courses I am fortunate enough to play, the more I recognize and see the greatness of Kingsley Club.

So here it is again, my annual bump of this phenomenal thread.

Funny you should bump this thread as I was reading through it this very afternoon (slow day at the office).  I got through #10; can't wait for the rest of the back nine (even though I've read the thread 2-3 times before).

Maybe I should move back to Traverse....
Mayhugh is my hero!!

"I love creating great golf courses.  I love shaping earth...it's a canvas." - Donald J. Trump

George Freeman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Finished the back nine and, yup, Kingsley nostalgia has fully kicked in...
Mayhugh is my hero!!

"I love creating great golf courses.  I love shaping earth...it's a canvas." - Donald J. Trump

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Too many johnny-come-lately GCA guys at Kingsley now, gotta find something more off the radar..... ;D
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Tim Bert

  • Karma: +0/-0
How about a few more bonus photos to start the new year?  I suspect there may be some additions throughout the year, and the tail end of this thread may become my personal shared photo album.  I hope to feature a sunrise / sunset series once I have a chance to tote something a little nicer than my point-and-shoot around the course during some non-golf time.

The approach to the 1st


Just in front of the 3rd green.  Don't miss left!


Can't get enough of the 8th


A different look than I've shared of the wild 13th green


For those not as familiar with the course, see if you can figure out what hole this is - hint: it isn't taken from the intended line of play




Also, I may have posted this earlier on the thread, but for anyone that prefers the "moving photo" slideshow tour version, feel free to check out this link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwksDnCa504

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
7th from short right?
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Tim Bert

  • Karma: +0/-0
7th from short right?

Very good, though I would characterize it as WAYYYYYY right.  I might not have had an issue with your participation if we hadn't played the long par three to this green from this approximate angle.

What part of "those not as familiar with the course" did you not understand?!?  ;)


Morgan Clawson

  • Karma: +0/-0
I'm going to guess #14.

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
7th from short right?

Very good, though I would characterize it as WAYYYYYY right.  I might not have had an issue with your participation if we hadn't played the long par three to this green from this approximate angle.

What part of "those not as familiar with the course" did you not understand?!?  ;)



Oh, I thought you meant those not as familiar with the course as you.
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Tim Bert

  • Karma: +0/-0
I would say you are about as familiar with the course as I am.  You are certainly as familiar with how to appropriately play 3-man, 1-club modified alternate shot there. 

It's ok, I don't think there were a bunch of people lining up to play although Morgan did take a shot at it as well.

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
I would say you are about as familiar with the course as I am.  You are certainly as familiar with how to appropriately play 3-man, 1-club modified alternate shot there. 

It's ok, I don't think there were a bunch of people lining up to play although Morgan did take a shot at it as well.

Only reason I recognized it is because my tee shot on the "par 3" took a precarious line directly into the trees on the right in the picture, from whence it was never to be seen again.

And if your statement about the appropriate way to play 3M1CMAS was a question, the answer is, of course, with a throw.

As an aside, I can't think of many courses on this side of the pond that are better suited for cross-country golf.   I still want to try the Par-TBD hole from the 4th Tee to the 18th Green.
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

George Freeman

  • Karma: +0/-0
I would say you are about as familiar with the course as I am.  You are certainly as familiar with how to appropriately play 3-man, 1-club modified alternate shot there. 

It's ok, I don't think there were a bunch of people lining up to play although Morgan did take a shot at it as well.

I'm not playing b/c the first guy to guess nailed it!  Way to go Sven!

I thought the green looked like #7, but the bunker really through me off.  It didn't look like the fronting bunker (at least not from the normal line of play).  Plus, those pines make you think back nine.
Mayhugh is my hero!!

"I love creating great golf courses.  I love shaping earth...it's a canvas." - Donald J. Trump

Matt Schmidt

  • Karma: +0/-0


And if your statement about the appropriate way to play 3M1CMAS was a question, the answer is, of course, with a throw.

Ahhh, yes.  But not just any throw.  An overhand, forward throw.  I think team Europe(an sounding names) could teach a clinic on 3M1CMAS. 

It is unfair to revive discussions of Kingsley when it is covered in snow...

Tim Bert

  • Karma: +0/-0
When it is covered in snow is the best time to revive discussions. When it isn't covered in snow, you play the course!

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0


And if your statement about the appropriate way to play 3M1CMAS was a question, the answer is, of course, with a throw.

Ahhh, yes.  But not just any throw.  An overhand, forward throw.  I think team Europe(an sounding names) could teach a clinic on 3M1CMAS. 

It is unfair to revive discussions of Kingsley when it is covered in snow...

So that was two teams of three with two clubs cross country.

Let me think......was alcohol involved? 

Tim Bert

  • Karma: +0/-0


And if your statement about the appropriate way to play 3M1CMAS was a question, the answer is, of course, with a throw.

Ahhh, yes.  But not just any throw.  An overhand, forward throw.  I think team Europe(an sounding names) could teach a clinic on 3M1CMAS. 

It is unfair to revive discussions of Kingsley when it is covered in snow...

So that was two teams of three with two clubs cross country.

Let me think......was alcohol involved? 

Bill - you are slightly confused, which is understandable.  Cross country was a different event entirely than three man, one club, modified alternate shot!

I can vouch that at least one participant wasn't influenced by alcohol, which probably makes it worse.

Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
 8) participants, Classic DUI..

the course.. pure michigan

summer spent up there, priceless
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
So that's why everyone's so keen to walk.  You can get a DUI fro driving a cart under the influence...
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Andrew Lewis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Sven -- It would play as a par 7 for all but the longest hitter.  The blind approach shot from the area in front of the big hill in 1 fairway would be around 150, or closer to 170 yards if one elected to go right of the hill...not that anybody has ever tried either of those shots.


JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Bump - in honor of Tim's blog.
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Steve Kline

  • Karma: +0/-0
I just got to spend the weekend at the Kingsley Club and played the course for the first time. I hadn't seen this thread before but read all the way through when I got home and wanted to post my thoughts on the course.

We had a little rain each day that made the course play softer than it normally does but the ball was still rolling some in the fairways. The greens were holding much better than they normally (at least that was my impression).

The course was simply fantastic! You never wanted to stop playing each day. While the two nines had distinct characters they felt connected. I think this was because of the alterations and tree removal on 10 and 18, 14 and 15, and 17. That seems to have really brought the nines together as the older pictures I saw with the trees just didn't look right. The routing was spectacular. I particularly liked being on the second hole and having all of the action around you. That would be great fun in a club tournament. The back nine routing had tremendous flow and pacing. I thought the score had plenty of opportunities for scoring and wasn't overly difficult as others have thought. Of course, I probably played it in the easiest conditions possible (see above) even though we had some wind.

Someone asked how they would split rounds with Ballyneal and Kingsley. I would go 6-4 with the edge to Ballyneal because I think Ballyneal has just a little more variety and a few more options for changing the nature of the holes based on what "tee" you play from. Although Kingsley had some fun par 3s we made up. Unfortunately we didn't get to play the reverse routing devised by Andrew Lewis that may have swayed me to 5-5 on the round split.

The front nine has some stand out holes. In fact, many of the individual holes may be superior to the individual holes on the back nine. However, I liked the back nine better because of the pacing of the holes. I didn't sense as much difference in difficulty between holes as I did on the back nine, which hard more half par holes. My favorite stretch on the course, which was just sublime, was 13-16 and I could almost through in 11, 12, and 17 as well.

Here are my quick thoughts on each hole.

1 - Great opening par 5. No real way for to reach the green in 2 or even just bomb 3 wood on the second shot, which is a rarity any more. Great second shot that makes you carefully decided to lay up or challenge the pinched fairway at the 100 yard mark and makes it hard (almost impossible) to get that perfect sand wedge distance. The third shot is way more uphill than you think.

2 - Fantastic short par 3. Doak wasn't fan because there weren't bailt out areas. I saw two - the back bunker long and hit a sand wedge or little pitching wedge in the rough about 25 yards short of the green. From either spot you should be able to get the next on the green and make four. But who wants to bailout on such a short par 3, which is the genius of the hole. Any slight miscue gets severely punished. I would think this could rack up the most others of any hole on the course.

3 - Great driving hole. One day I played from the right wing of the golf tee on #5. That was a really interesting drive. Next time I will play from the white tee on #5 making it a real cape hole.

4 - After the first time through this hole seemed a lot easier. I found the play to be down the left as it shortened the hole and left a manageable wedge shot even though it was partially blind. Really good green site and I loved that the middle ridge was big enough to put pins on.

5 - Nice punchbowl green site. Any of my shots that found the green always seemed to find the same spot no matter the club or how I hit them, which detracts from the hole a little. Might need some more plays to figure out to get to other parts of the green.

6 - Similar to 4 in that the drive got easier after the first time through. Really like how the green is benched into the hill. It is either really hard to judge the distance of the second shot (as mentioned in the thread) or I was really afraid of going long and left as I was always short of the flag. A back left flag would have some serious pucker factor.

7 - Despite birdieing it the first three times I played it, this was my least favorite hole on the course. Lay up off the tee. Lay up on the second shot. Wedge it on the green. Not very exciting. The slopes are just too severe to challenge with the driver (I did once from the blue tees but have no chance to do so from the gold) and the reward isn't that great as you end up in the bowl just past the left trees. That's a very difficult shot if going for the green in two.

8 - Good hole. The green looks like it would be really tough to hit to if they were their normal firmness.

9 - I found this hole much easier than 2 although I didn't like it nearly as much. Mayhugh and I even played it from next to fairway bunker on #8, which was about a 5 iron to the far left pin. Cool shot with a totally different perspective since it was up hill.

7-9 was probably my least favorite stretch of the course. That doesn't mean they were bad holes though.

10 - Totally different looks from the blue and gold tees. Really like this green site and the options on how to play your second shot into the green. Next time I will tee off from the driving range, which makes the hole a little longer, plays more uphill, and again changes the angle.

11 - I thought this a subtly brilliant par 3. The front bunker guards that part of the green nicely but you have the small kicker slope on the left. The back tier would be quite frightening to play too from the back tees. The false side on the right gathers many more shots than you think it would. I can see why some think it's a breather hole, but it could bite you if you aren'y careful.

12 - First time through I didn't think there was much to this hole. Each time through I appreciated the green more and more. I could never get the tee shot quite right as four out of the six times I hit it on the hill to the right.

13 - Favorite hole on the course. An drivable par 4 that actually have a chance to drive it on. I did the first day from the right blue tee with a three wood. I didn't carry a scorecard so the first time through I was trying to figure out if it was a par 3 or par 4. Every time I played this hole I wanted to run back to the tee and play it again. We asked the super for a back left pin after the first day. He obliged with two holes on the green for the rest of the weekend - one on the back for us and another hole for everyone else. We couldn't get enough of playing to the back left flag and trying to figure out how to make par.

14 - Great fun standing on the back tee and trying to just blast it over the bunkers. You can really let it rip on this hole. Loved the green site and how you could run it on the green in two up the right, which brought the bunkers in play, but if you go slightly left you catch the slope and are left with an awkward third. But there are lots of green contours you can use to get the ball close from left of the green.

15 - Earlier comments said good players often don't like this hole. As a good player all I can say is what a bunch of pusses. I loved this hole. The knob in the left side of the fairway really messes with you. Don't challenge it enough and you be playing a fade on your second. Go a little too far left and you have a tough second from the rough. The last time we played the hole from the blue. I hit a great drive that gave me a straight shot at a back left flag with a 4 iron. I pured the 4 iron but it drew just a yard or two too much and bounded into the back left bunker. I hit a great bunker shot to 10 feet. Missed the putt and made 5. I hit what I thought were three perfect shots and didn't make a par. Has to be the hardest hole on the course.

16 - I can't think of anything more fun than playing your shot out to the right and watching your ball bound left, disappear, and reappear on the green. One day from the back tees I aimed just inside of the trees on the right and ended up on the left side of the green. The last round from the blue I was trying to play a low drawing 5 iron. The line was good but I got a little too much of the low part as I hit it thin and the ball didn't get much more more than 5-10 feet off the ground. When my ball cleared the hump short of the green and I saw it running to the middle left flag I said don't go in (can't have that as my first hole in one). My ball stopped a half inch short of the hole. Maybe I shouldn't have said anything.


17 - Great fun. I was only able to get it over the hill one time since we were usually into the wind. My best shot of the weekend came on this hole. I smashed a drive from the gold tee. The ball was about 10 yards of going over the hill on a slight upslope in the right fairway. I had close to 280 into a slight breeze. I hit the best 3 wood of my life that was just a towering shot. Landed on the green, rolled about 3 feet and came to rest 20 feet from the hole. Unfortunately the putt was the saddest attempt at eagle ever. It will be impossible for me to get it over the hill from the new gold tee I think.

18 - Good transition back to the openness of the front nine. Another fund punchbowl green site.

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Could we get a little info on Andrew's reverse routing?   I'm having a hard time visualizing it!

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