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Re the tree on 13; Since the proper play is short, laying back at the 150 range for ones third, the tree offers a visual clue on how to properly play the hole for the first timer. It also, protects 15 tee from tugged non thinkers who naturally try to get as close as possible to the green on their second. Sean, The cross bunker term does apply because they do cross the line of instinct, or are on the inside legs of slight turns. On 13 and other holes they work exactly like Dr. Mac's 3rd at CPC or Pete Dye's 16th on the River course at BWR. They essentially are diagonal cross carries. Call'em a rose, since they play so sweet. Your discussion has taught me not to get too hung up on the terminology. It's the concept, use and application that matter. Thanx.RE 14; The old photo really does show a much better hole. The current version is a much inferior hole, all due to the claustrophobia.
From the photos it doesn't appear that there is much difference in space to go around L&M's "echelon bunkers" as seen on #13 and their "cross bunkers" (which btw I can find no other archie who labels cross bunkers the way L&M do) as seen on the front 9. This would seem to leave same choices from the tee for either style of bunkering - assuming they are at a relatively similar distance from the tee. Perhaps the pics are misleading or the fairway to the right of the "echelon bunkers" on 13 has been narrowed.
Dan,I didn't think you could do any better ... but you've outdone yourself with the back nine addition. Awesome.I definitely agree about some of the tree clearing needed. Seems odd too since to a large extent the course is wide open and presents few occasions where the trees encroach. Ron must be making plans to clear a little. Right?I think what I find really great is how indeed there may be some penal situations ... but it sure looks like you can just about always recover. No water hazards, yet a tough challenge.Great pre pics as well. I just love this before and after.I'm thinking road trip next year. Especially with their stay and play. Hmmm...
One (more...) thing that is a nice feature of Lawsonia, and Langford courses generally, is the way he uses both blindness for uncertainty on some shots, but also large and obvious features in other areas, to give the golfer a real sense of what he's taking on, and the risks inherent (or not) in certain lines of play.
I hope folks aren't left with the impression that Langford didn't leave generous room on the fairways with blind or partial blindness. I'd argue he did -- Doug, do you see it differently?
Doug:Well, 5 is a tight little bugger, isn't it? Short at 487 for a par 5, it has OB down the entire right side and junk left. An under-rated risk/reward hole, because as you note, the "turbo boost" is reachable for the long hitter -- a mid-iron second into the green for some if you reach it -- but blind off the tee, with trouble for the wayward (even the slightly wayward).I hope folks aren't left with the impression that Langford didn't leave generous room on the fairways with blind or partial blindness. I'd argue he did -- Doug, do you see it differently?
Quote from: Phil McDade on October 31, 2008, 06:42:42 AMI hope folks aren't left with the impression that Langford didn't leave generous room on the fairways with blind or partial blindness. I'd argue he did -- Doug, do you see it differently?I think I know why Doug may find Lawsonia with less useable width than others. From my recollection Doug likes to work the ball right to left off of the tee, and Lawsonia certainly favors a fade off of the tee. Someone with a propensity to draw/hook the ball off of the tee may have a skewed perception of the width off of the tee due to the majority of tee-shots that favor a fade. Just a guess.
Just wanted to revive this as I had a great time at Lawsonia with Dick Daley and Steve the Marine - who is a Great American...capital G, capital A.What a great start! I have no problem with the blind drive on 1 or 2...I loved cresting the hill and seeing the hole unfold. Great shaping all the way around. There's a right side to miss and a wrong side, that';s for sure. There are great interior contours on the green, and a strong routing that plays into the most interesting parts of the property.
Like most areas around here, we had a real bad stretch of disease conducive weather, and most every course shows some ravages of that period of time. Yet, the weather has moderated and most of the turf conditions are getting better rapidly. Lawsonia has always kept the greens cut a fraction HOC longer than most courses and we found it pretty good shape the week of PGA when Jay was here.I imagine they will stay open until last week of Oct or early Nov. That is the best time of year to play. I'd say it peaks in color, and after a few night frosts by about 2nd week of Oct. If you have a chance to visit there at that time, you will not be disappointed. These are the glory days of golf in many parts of the country. It is a happy time, indeed.
Sean,If you're anywhere close, it's certainly worth a stop. The Green Lake Inn is a fine spot to spend the night. It's walking distance from Norton's which will give you the full Wisconsin "Supper Club" experience for dinner. The Goose Blind is a good bar in town. In addition to tree removal, I think they are starting on some bunker work this season? One bunker at a time, though. Enjoy!