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It would be a big mistake to not mention the course at Del Boca Vista, Phase 2, an original design of Morty Seinfeld and Cosmo Kramer. It not only has an interesting version of the Biarritz but also holes such as a Capestein, Alpsberg, Redanowitz and the Schmear. Interestingly enough, Caddies are referred to as 'Schleppers'-has anyone played there recently?
I don't think there was any Mackenzie left there after RMG in the early 1960's. Jed, I disagree with you about the course - it's one of my favorites - but more specifically that Rees did anything bad to it. I certainly don't think he took any Mackenzie out because I'm pretty sure there wasn't any Mackenzie left to remove as late as 1996. Somebody on this site has a picture of the 1960's version.
Quote from: Matt_Cohn on September 04, 2008, 03:32:30 AMI don't think there was any Mackenzie left there after RMG in the early 1960's. Jed, I disagree with you about the course - it's one of my favorites - but more specifically that Rees did anything bad to it. I certainly don't think he took any Mackenzie out because I'm pretty sure there wasn't any Mackenzie left to remove as late as 1996. Somebody on this site has a picture of the 1960's version.Matt:You're probably right, sas I say in my post. There probably wasn't much (if any) influence left.But that doesn't mean the course doesn't fit my eye, or I don't see what "could be" out there.
How is that Tam O'Shanter in the Detroit area? I haven't had a chance to go play it but it looks interesting.-Brian
Now Mike Golden's photo shows EXACTLY what i'd like to see out there!
I guess its time for me to weigh in with respect to the Chicago area. Barney, I'm glad you enjoyed your day at Briarwood; I couldn't find the link on your post. Part of my motivation is to correct the misperceptions set out by J. Winick. As noted, you don't have any historical perspective about Chicago. As such, your statements are inaccurate. For many years Chicago clubs were almost exclusively divided into "restricted" (non Jewish) and preponderantly Jewish clubs. Jews were not welcome as members (and in some instances) as guests in most clubs. As a result Jews formed their own clubs. In the south suburbs, Ravisloe and Idlewild were formed in the first decade of the 20th century. On the North Shore, Lake Shore was built at about the same time and Northmoor came in the late teens. Bryn Mawr, an in city club was formed in the early 20's. Green Acres was built in the late 20's. Later on Twin Orchards acquired its courses in Long Grove. Briarwood was formed in 1958 and purchased its Colt and Alison course (built in 1921) in 1958. Hillcrest was formed in the 1960s. Ravinia Green is also of relatively recent vintage.There were a few mixed clubs but they generally were not equity clubs. The most famous was George S. May's Tam O' Shanter.Two factors have led to a lessening of "restrictions." The first is the advent of housing development related clubs. Those who buy homes, regardless of faith or other classifications generally can join.The second is economics. Many older wonderful clubs located in areas which are no longer economically desireable found it necessary to admit members who Previously they would not have considered because the pool of available members was diminishing. To the best of my knowledge, this started in the early 1980's at Beverly. More recently Olympia Fields, which had always been extremely restricted has opened up. Other clubs have admitted less than a handful of Jewish members while the majority remain as they were.As for the Jewish clubs, those in the south suburbs are hurting economically and are open to all while retaining a significant Jewish population attributable in large measure to long time members. The north side may be slightly "overclubbed" and it is possible that a couple could fail in the forseeable future.As for the caliber of the golf, it varies. I am too prejudiced to talk about Briarwood but it is very solid. Some very good holes on most of the courses but nothing in the "top 100" range.Finally, who ever had Skokie as a Jewish club had it 100% backwards although I believe there may be less than a handful of Jewish members now. It is a wonderful golf course.
I concur with SL Solow's economic analysis on the changes taking place within "historically Jewish clubs" and all clubs in Chicago with respect to membership policies. This phenomenon is happening throughout the country. After all, a club is a business.Nevertheless, the main thrust of my thread is the golf courses of these clubs. There are many built in the "Golden Age" and designed by the likes of Ross, Tillinghast, Flynn,Park and others. I think JWinick's comment as to the quality of the courses is way off base as evidenced by the national rankings.Let's hear more on the courses.
JedJed, the greens and bunkers were totallly changed from MacKenzie to very basic shapes by Bob Graves in the 1960's renovation. I'll never know why he rerouted so much of the golf course when at least 13 of the original holes could have been left in place-it could have been the club wanting like that or it could have just been his vision-it was his first solo project. I can tell you that the Rees construction project was all done first rate-I had Pete Galea at the club (who is an expert at this) and he noted how well the green surrounds were done and the care taken to make sure that the greens would last a very long time. You can't really develop a true appreciation for the golf course on one play, there are many subleties that get overlooked on the first play.Bob, it was definitely the younger, lower handicap players who wanted the course tougher although the post-60's course was apparently pretty difficult in it's own right, with very small greens that required very delicate touch on chip shots around the greens.