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JWinick

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Re: The golf courses of the "historically Jewish clubs"
« Reply #25 on: September 04, 2008, 05:52:50 AM »
In Long Island where I grew up, Jewish clubs were formed because Jews could not get into the exlusive Wasp clubs.  So, in much of the NY-area, there are still many predominatly Jewish, or for that matter, Wasp, Catholic, etc. clubs.  In Chicago where I live now, they do have a handful of Jewish clubs, but Chicago seems less segregated.  In fact, I don't know of any club that doesn't have a single Jewish member.  Recently, I played a famous golf course in the NY-area and I know for a fact that they don't have one Jewish member. 

Jewish clubs tend to have better clubhouses, food, amenities, etc., but usually mediocre golf courses.   I have no commentary on why that is such, but it seems common.  Perhaps, it's a function of the oldest, most exclusive clubs getting the best land.     

Bradley Anderson

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Re: The golf courses of the "historically Jewish clubs"
« Reply #26 on: September 04, 2008, 06:08:57 AM »
We did a reasearch project of the tenures of superintendents in Chicago. The goal was to develop a history of every superintedent to work at all of the clubs going back to when they were founded.

I noticed an interesting pattern when I analyzed the superintedents with the longest tenures. Of the six superintendents with plus 40 years at one club, four had served Jewish clubs. There were only eight Jewish clubs out of hundreds on that whole list so that makes that statistic even more incredible.


Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: The golf courses of the "historically Jewish clubs"
« Reply #27 on: September 04, 2008, 06:24:58 AM »
Scott,

I knew about Broadmoor and have now included it in the list of ranked courses.

Here are some other clubs:

Irondequoit in Rochester
Green Gables in Denver
Knollwood and Tam O'Shanter in Detroit
Losantiville in Cincinnati
Oakwood in Kansas City
Jefferson-Lakeside in Richmond
Columbian in Dallas
Blue Ridge in Harrisburg, PA
Berkleigh in Reading, PA
Green Oaks in Pittsburgh, PA
Oakwood in Cleveland
« Last Edit: September 04, 2008, 08:48:04 AM by Steve_ Shaffer »
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Thomas MacWood

Re: The golf courses of the "historically Jewish clubs"
« Reply #28 on: September 04, 2008, 06:43:13 AM »
The original Jewish club in Columbus was Winding Hollow, it was founded in the early 20s. Herbert Strong was engaged to design an 18-hole golf course, but for whatever reason only 9 holes were built. In the late 40's RTJ expanded it to 18, more in a Thompson vein than typical Trent Jones. Of all the courses in Columbus it may be the sportiest. Originally the course was way out in the country but as the city grew that part of town became pretty rough. They sold the course to the city, and moved further out to New Albany, building an Art Hills design that frankly was not very good. Unforntunately the club has gone under in the last few years and is no more (pressure from the near by CC of New Albany I guess). Their original course still survives as the public course Champions.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2008, 07:41:15 AM by Tom MacWood »

Paul_Daley

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Re: The golf courses of the "historically Jewish clubs"
« Reply #29 on: September 04, 2008, 07:35:20 AM »
Fenimore, the forerunner to Fenway?

Jon Spaulding

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Re: The golf courses of the "historically Jewish clubs"
« Reply #30 on: September 04, 2008, 07:47:40 AM »
Lake Merced is a fine golf course and an excellent examination in ball-striking. Regarding the latter, perhaps the best in the neighborhood. The MacKenzie lineage tends to be way overstated; what small amount was once there has been gone for a long time as already mentioned.

I appreciate the different "look" and playing characteristics when compared to others around the lake. I would put it ahead of a number of the 30 courses listed in the current Golf Digest state rankings for CA.

You'd make a fine little helper. What's your name?

Jon Spaulding

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Re: The golf courses of the "historically Jewish clubs"
« Reply #31 on: September 04, 2008, 07:50:15 AM »
Green Hills in Millbrae, CA - formerly the Union League Club by Mackenzie.

Hillcrest in LA, CA - Watson.

I've not played the latter, but the former is a personal favorite, save a few holes :-\.
You'd make a fine little helper. What's your name?

John Kavanaugh

Re: The golf courses of the "historically Jewish clubs"
« Reply #32 on: September 04, 2008, 07:50:24 AM »
Not only in my top 100 courses ever visited, my day at Briarwood was one of my top 100 best days of golf.  While the clubhouse is low profile by high end club standards, the club has without question the finest selection of furniture I have ever seen in a recreational environment.  Here is a link to the club history with a small example of the interior space: http://tinyurl.com/5neh6t  note:  My sincerest apologies if Briarwood does not condsider itself a HJC.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2008, 07:56:11 AM by John Kavanaugh »

Brad Tufts

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Re: The golf courses of the "historically Jewish clubs"
« Reply #33 on: September 04, 2008, 07:52:57 AM »
Blue Hill (I think), Belmont, and Kernwood here in Boston, among others I'm sure.
So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

Dan Boerger

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Re: The golf courses of the "historically Jewish clubs"
« Reply #34 on: September 04, 2008, 08:05:01 AM »
John - Nice pics of Briarwood. From that link, look who they say designed the course ... Allison, cold and McKenzie.
Something they may want to correct!
"Man should practice moderation in all things, including moderation."  Mark Twain

John Kavanaugh

Re: The golf courses of the "historically Jewish clubs"
« Reply #35 on: September 04, 2008, 08:07:55 AM »
John - Nice pics of Briarwood. From that link, look who they say designed the course ... Allison, cold and McKenzie.
Something they may want to correct!

The member we all know, love and admire must cringe at that entire article.   I have searched for years for pics of the poolhouse.  It reminds me of the Jewel Box in Forest Park, St. Louis.  http://stlouis.missouri.org/citygov/parks/jewelbox/
« Last Edit: September 04, 2008, 08:12:09 AM by John Kavanaugh »

Jim Nugent

Re: The golf courses of the "historically Jewish clubs"
« Reply #36 on: September 04, 2008, 08:16:42 AM »
Is El Caballero in Tarzana mostly Jewish? 

Peter Pratt

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Re: The golf courses of the "historically Jewish clubs"
« Reply #37 on: September 04, 2008, 08:18:24 AM »
Add Franklin Hills to Knollwood and Tam O'Shanter in suburban Detroit.

Mike Golden

Re: The golf courses of the "historically Jewish clubs"
« Reply #38 on: September 04, 2008, 08:18:48 AM »
Lake Merced Country Club in San Francisco, CA is one of note as well--but was hacked by Rees Jones' firm (IMHO).

I do need to play it again, however....

That being said, I would have loved to play the Mackenzie routing/design back in the 30s and 40s....

Jed,

What is it that Rees Jones did that displeases you?

What was his remit? Did he ignore the requests of his clients? As I have heard, it was  some of the younger members of the club that decided to toughen it up. Do tell me if I am wrong.

Bob

Bob,

It's not so much as to what he did there that displeases me (I think the course is a fine, fair test of golf) but rather displeases my "eye". I can tell that the shape was taken out of the greens and bunkers by a single play, and the "old timey-ness" and classic feel were thusly pulled out.

This was accomplished by (seemingly on my one view around the property) "reesing" up the bunkers (sharpening up edges, taking out "wildness", deepening them), pushing up the greens, etc.

I have no problem with his lengthening of the course--but the greensites--which you can see originally were fantastic (post Lock/done by mackenzie) and this has been lost.

My take on it was that years of neglect and "average" club maintenance (and undoubtedly by the work of Robert Muir Graves!)  practices probably lost most of the mackenzie that was there anyhow--and this necessitated the re-do.

While I think it's a great option, and a place I could play (and would play) whenever, just that I think that the club's location/site and layout lend itself to a more "classic" approach.

Regarding the younger members wanting to toughen it up, I played unaccompanied the visit I had there, on a reciprocal, so I can't speak to that aspect of your query.

Jed



I don't think there was any Mackenzie left there after RMG in the early 1960's. Jed, I disagree with you about the course - it's one of my favorites - but more specifically that Rees did anything bad to it. I certainly don't think he took any Mackenzie out because I'm pretty sure there wasn't any Mackenzie left to remove as late as 1996. Somebody on this site has a picture of the 1960's version.

There was no MacKenzie left after the 1960's renovation.  One of the purposes of the 1996 renovation was to attract a USGA event and Rees was brought in to do that.  It resulted in the ill fated Women's 2002 Open fiasco.  That all being said, the current version of Lake Merced is a terrific, if not classic, golf course.  I was on the Green committee for my last 3 years at the club and there was a great deal of emphasis placed on firming the golf course up through fairway aeration.  The greens survived a nematode invasion that killed almost all of them about 6 years ago and my friends tell me they are thriving today.  One constant about Lake Merced is that it can play very tough, particularly on a windy day-just look at the scores in the afternoon rounds of the US Open Sectionals year after year, even with friendly pin locations.

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The golf courses of the "historically Jewish clubs"
« Reply #39 on: September 04, 2008, 08:22:05 AM »
Jim,

El Caballero was indeed founded as a "Jewish club" albeit in 1957, a relative newcomer.
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Brian Cenci

Re: The golf courses of the "historically Jewish clubs"
« Reply #40 on: September 04, 2008, 08:25:14 AM »
How is that Tam O'Shanter in the Detroit area?  I haven't had a chance to go play it but it looks interesting.

-Brian

Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The golf courses of the "historically Jewish clubs"
« Reply #41 on: September 04, 2008, 09:02:37 AM »
Surprised no one's mentioned Skokie in Chicago. A Bendelow/Ross/Langford-Moreau that's good enough to merit a GCA write-up:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/skokie1.html

John Kavanaugh

Re: The golf courses of the "historically Jewish clubs"
« Reply #42 on: September 04, 2008, 09:18:46 AM »
Surprised no one's mentioned Skokie in Chicago. A Bendelow/Ross/Langford-Moreau that's good enough to merit a GCA write-up:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/skokie1.html

A common misperception.  I don't think Skokie is considered a JC.

Matt Bosela

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Re: The golf courses of the "historically Jewish clubs"
« Reply #43 on: September 04, 2008, 10:05:43 AM »
Oakdale G&CC in Toronto has a pretty interesting history.  Robert Thompson wrote a bit about it on his blog awhile back.

http://www.ontgolf.ca/g4g/2006/12/13/club-review-oakdale-in-december/

Tom Huckaby

Re: The golf courses of the "historically Jewish clubs"
« Reply #44 on: September 04, 2008, 10:17:05 AM »
Is El Caballero in Tarzana mostly Jewish? 

I have had no contact with that club since the 80s, but it sure was back then.  The Catholic HS I attended - Crespi - was about 1/2 mile from that course, but we never got to play it until we finally got a match against the local pubic school!

Great course, great club though.  That is where I caddied when I was a kid. 

TH

tlavin

Re: The golf courses of the "historically Jewish clubs"
« Reply #45 on: September 04, 2008, 10:47:12 AM »
Surprised no one's mentioned Skokie in Chicago. A Bendelow/Ross/Langford-Moreau that's good enough to merit a GCA write-up:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/skokie1.html

A common misperception.  I don't think Skokie is considered a JC.

Skokie is decidedly not a Jewish club.  In Chicago, there is a handful of clubs that fit this designation, or that used to fit it.  On the north, Lake Shore, Hillcrest and Twin Orchard are all considered Jewish clubs.  On the south, Ravisloe and Idlewild used to fit that definition, but demographic and economic changes on the south side have changed all that.  Truth is, the clubs on the south side can't afford to discriminate and as a result, those two clubs are like the U.N., which is not a bad thing, IMHO.  Just a fact of life.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2008, 10:56:51 AM by Terry Lavin »

Jason Mandel

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Re: The golf courses of the "historically Jewish clubs"
« Reply #46 on: September 04, 2008, 10:50:47 AM »
White Manor outside of Philadelphia started as a Jewish club, though it is about 50/50 today.

I also believe that Inwood on Long Island was originally a Jewish club, but is also more diversified today.

I believe Bala in Philadelphia would also qualify.

Jason
You learn more about a man on a golf course than anywhere else

contact info: jasonymandel@gmail.com

Jeff_Stettner

Re: The golf courses of the "historically Jewish clubs"
« Reply #47 on: September 04, 2008, 10:59:13 AM »
Meadowbrooke in St. Louis was also founded as a Jewish Club, although the membership is now about 50/50. Good course that was redesigned by Keith Foster a few years ago. 

JSlonis

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Re: The golf courses of the "historically Jewish clubs"
« Reply #48 on: September 04, 2008, 11:05:31 AM »
White Manor outside of Philadelphia started as a Jewish club, though it is about 50/50 today.

I also believe that Inwood on Long Island was originally a Jewish club, but is also more diversified today.

I believe Bala in Philadelphia would also qualify.

Jason

Add to that Philmont and Green Valley in the Philly area.

Mountain Ridge and Hollywood are the best examples in NJ and according to the first post in this thread, both are ranked much lower than they should be by Golf Digest.  If there are 13 better courses in NJ than Mountain Ridge, I'd eat my sand wedge. ;D

Tyler Kearns

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The golf courses of the "historically Jewish clubs"
« Reply #49 on: September 04, 2008, 11:36:58 AM »
Add Glendale in Winnipeg, Manitoba to the list (Stanley Thompson).

TK

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