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Joel_Stewart

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You really have to see it to appreciate it #2 (updated pics)
« on: July 04, 2008, 12:12:50 AM »
Martis Camp, Truckee, Lake Tahoe, CA

I'll steal Pats line because I was able to play this new course during opening weekend.  This course was carved out of rock and trees on very hilly terrain.

Some of the construction highlights,

The Fazio team used Wadsworth Construction and a really brilliant superintendent who came from Lahontian Golf Club which is located next door.  

1) all the fir and pine trees were harvested and sent to market. 2) All other wood including the stumps were ground up on site and trucked to a co generation plant.  I’m told it was 6 trucks per hour, all day for over a month.  The club lost money on this but they felt it was the right thing to do.  3) The entire golf course was sand capped. (the natural ground is basically rock).  4) Sub air systems were installed in all the greens which the super hopes to raise the temperature in the spring in order to get the greens going after the winter snow.  5) The most amazing drainage system was installed using a series of water collection ponds which then pumps the water back for irrigation. 6) Lastly, the most incredible shaping which showed NO collection areas and not one single drain was visible on the golf course.

They moved 250,000 tons of dirt which they considered small and honestly the course looks like it has been laying there the entire time.

A few photos,

The par 4 18th hole



The par 4 9th.





2nd shot into the par 4 2nd hole
« Last Edit: July 06, 2008, 03:53:00 PM by Joel_Stewart »
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Tim Bert

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Re: You really have to see it to appreciate it #2
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2008, 12:17:14 AM »
The course is quite red.
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Joel_Stewart

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Re: You really have to see it to appreciate it #2
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2008, 12:19:51 AM »
Not sure I know what that means?  The photos open on my computer?
« Last Edit: July 04, 2008, 12:23:17 AM by Joel_Stewart »
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Tim Bert

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Re: You really have to see it to appreciate it #2
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2008, 12:22:04 AM »
All I see is 5 red boxes, size of approximately 1 square inch each.

Usually my laptop picks up most formats of photos that are posted here, so not sure why they're coming through like that.  I figured at least someone else would see them like I do and might get my feeble attempt at humor.
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Kevin_Reilly

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Re: You really have to see it to appreciate it #2
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2008, 12:48:27 AM »
Joel, wherever you have the pictures hosted (snapfish?), they aren't publicly viewable.  You can see them, because they are in your browser's cache.  Put them on Photobucket or make some change to the snapfish settings so the pics are viewable by anyone.
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"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson

RJ_Daley

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Re: You really have to see it to appreciate it #2
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2008, 01:18:58 AM »
Quote
1) all the fir and pine trees were harvested and sent to market. 2) All other wood including the stumps were ground up on site and trucked to a co generation plant.  I’m told it was 6 trucks per hour, all day for over a month.  The club lost money on this but they felt it was the right thing to do.  3) The entire golf course was sand capped. (the natural ground is basically rock).  4) Sub air systems were installed in all the greens which the super hopes to raise the temperature in the spring in order to get the greens going after the winter snow.  5) The most amazing drainage system was installed using a series of water collection ponds which then pumps the water back for irrigation. 6) Lastly, the most incredible shaping which showed NO collection areas and not one single drain was visible on the golf course.

I suspect that the photos are of Melvyn seeing red, considering if this is "land suited for purpose".  ;) ;D
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No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Kalen Braley

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Re: You really have to see it to appreciate it #2
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2008, 08:21:32 AM »
« Last Edit: July 04, 2008, 08:34:19 AM by Kalen Braley »
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Rich Goodale

Re: You really have to see it to appreciate it #2
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2008, 08:23:42 AM »
I hope there aren't any bulls logged in now.....
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Dan Kelly

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Re: You really have to see it to appreciate it #2
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2008, 08:29:38 AM »
Very geometric.

Has Fazio entered his Raynor Period?
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Joel_Stewart

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Re: You really have to see it to appreciate it #2 (revised)
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2008, 03:48:43 PM »
I'm not sure what happened as I have posted many photos on GCA before and not had a problem.   So I took my photos down and used their photos from their web site, www.martiscamp.com

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Joel_Stewart

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Re: You really have to see it to appreciate it #2 (revised)
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2008, 11:49:20 PM »
I wanted to try one more time from my photos.  This is the 17th a par 3.

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Tim Bert

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Re: You really have to see it to appreciate it #2 (revised)
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2008, 11:55:34 PM »
Red (Not the ones from the original post any more.  I can see those.  I'm referring to the subsequent image you tried to post, which looks like the original ones did before you altered them)
« Last Edit: July 05, 2008, 11:55:12 AM by Tim Bert »
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John Sheehan

Re: You really have to see it to appreciate it #2 (revised)
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2008, 03:20:07 AM »
Joel,
I am curious:  You rightly point out the engineering feats of the construction of the course.  What did you think of the golf?
Thanks,
John
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Tim Nugent

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Re: You really have to see it to appreciate it #2 (revised)
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2008, 10:56:15 AM »
I can see all the pictures and they're great.  For all you guys that love to knock TF on this site, I hope these change (or at leads to softening) your views.  IMHO these are great bunkers. 
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Coasting is a downhill process

Tom_Doak

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Re: You really have to see it to appreciate it #2 (revised)
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2008, 01:34:35 PM »
Tim:  I am surprised to hear you praising "great bunkers" based on a couple of pictures.  I thought listening to people hyperventilate about bunkers was one of the things that other architects hated about this site.
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Ron Farris

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Re: You really have to see it to appreciate it #2 (revised)
« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2008, 02:32:15 PM »
One has to admit that these are very pretty pictures.  I am curious what it cost to maintain a golf course of this nature.  Who cares?  It sells a jillion dollars in memberships and lots?  I too am curious as to how the golf course plays in terms of strategy?
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Matt_Cohn

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Re: You really have to see it to appreciate it #2 (revised)
« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2008, 01:20:31 AM »
Joel's pictures:







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Jim Nugent

Re: You really have to see it to appreciate it #2 (revised)
« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2008, 06:43:11 AM »
I like Joel's pix better than the ones from the website.

Can anyone tell us about the course itself? 
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Joel_Stewart

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Re: You really have to see it to appreciate it #2 (revised)
« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2008, 10:37:49 AM »
Thanks Matt for posting the photos.

From my photos, the first one is the par 3 3rd hole.  Fairly short it plays about 160.  The course is at 6500 feet elevation so club selection is a little testy at least for me.  I would say the ball goes 20% longer at that elevation.  I told the super that he is going to have to watch this green because we played a 5some and everyone 3 putted.

The second photo is the tee shot for the par 5 4th hole.  Its a little contrived, basically blind hitting over those bunkers and small pond.   It then opens up to the 3rd photo, a slight dogleg to the right playing slighlty up hill.  As with so many of the holes, you can use the firm and fast ground game to get your ball onto the green which I did on my 2nd shot.

The last photo is the par 3 17th which sits on top of the rock ledge.   Its a spectacular hole.  The pin was a complete sucker pin on the far right so I hit a shot into the middle of the green and it funneled nicely right next to the hole.  The greens have alot of nice subtle contours but were very difficult to gauge for speed.  They ran about 11 going downhill and around 8 going uphill.

To answer Rons question, I had high hopes for this course and was expecting it to be great and it exceeded my expecations.  The attention to detail, the varied shot selections, the different lengths, this course really has the entire package for anyone who plays it.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2008, 01:48:51 PM by Joel_Stewart »
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Joel_Stewart

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Re: You really have to see it to appreciate it #2 (revised)
« Reply #19 on: July 06, 2008, 11:20:38 AM »
Quote from: Jim Nugent on July 06, 2008, 06:43:11 AM
I like Joel's pix better than the ones from the website.


The one thing I can tell about my photos and the website phots  is mine have smoke in the background as fires are all over the state.  There were no fires directly in the Lake Tahoe area but you couldn't see across the lake.
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Tim Nugent

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Re: You really have to see it to appreciate it #2 (revised)
« Reply #20 on: July 06, 2008, 12:36:23 PM »
Tom Doak - Why would it surprise you?  I feel that the bunkering of a course shows the personality of the course and as an extention - the architect.  I see from your work that you take a great deal of time perfecting the "look" you desire for that course.  Unfortunately, all could do was to comment based upon the pics but it is my experience that 'real time' views of golf courses tend to be better than photos.  So I extrapolated to what I thought real time would look like. 
Besides, one reason I tune into this site is to listen to the hyperventilating. 
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Coasting is a downhill process

Tom_Doak

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Re: You really have to see it to appreciate it #2 (revised)
« Reply #21 on: July 06, 2008, 12:44:07 PM »
Joel:  Right on the fires.  I was in Pope Valley last week for a small event at Aetna Springs, but it was so smoky I didn't bother taking any pictures this trip ... you couldn't even see the hills that surround the course, and the fires are at least 30 miles from there.

I was really surprised that you said the second and third pictures were part of the same hole ... the bunkering looks really different between the two. 
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Matt_Cohn

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Re: You really have to see it to appreciate it #2 (updated pics)
« Reply #22 on: July 06, 2008, 10:30:23 PM »




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Tiger_Bernhardt

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Re: You really have to see it to appreciate it #2 (updated pics)
« Reply #23 on: July 07, 2008, 01:22:47 AM »
Joel thanks for the introduction. How does this course fit into you Fazio index? top third etc.
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Joel_Stewart

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Re: You really have to see it to appreciate it #2 (updated pics)
« Reply #24 on: July 08, 2008, 01:31:38 AM »
I'm not sure how many Fazio courses I have played (around 15) but I would say its among his best that I have played, if not the best.   I remember playing Shadow Creek the 2nd and 3rd time and seeing some of the warts and imperfections which is probably what I need to do with Martis Camp.   From my first visit I really didn't see any, especially in the construction and shaping which I found flawless.  I also need to play it all the way back to see the challenge from the back tees but from my first glance feel that it will be tough enough for any good player.

The disadvantage to this course is 1. its out of the way for most people on the east coast, 2. it has a limited season and 3. is going to be very exclusive.
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