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Dan King

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Re: The Lido Golf Course by C.B. Macdonald
« Reply #50 on: July 07, 2008, 01:00:51 PM »
George_Bahto writes:
The Lido project began in 1914 about the time Hitler was terrorizing Europe

Unless we are talking the young Corporal Hitler, you are off by about a generation.

Many course were lost because of the great depression, I always assumed Lido was one of them. Do you know anything about Santa Cruz Golf and Country Club in Pogonip? The property was impressive, but I've found little mention of the golf course. It existed from around 1914 to 1935.

Cheers,
Dan King
Quote
The great strength of the totalitarian state is that it forces those who fear it to imitate it.
 --Adolf Hitler

Thomas MacWood

Re: The Lido Golf Course by C.B. Macdonald
« Reply #51 on: July 07, 2008, 01:05:43 PM »
Dan
SCG&CC was founded in 1911. In 1930 it was 5425 yards par 68. 2 miles from the city.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 01:15:54 PM by Tom MacWood »

Rich Goodale

Re: The Lido Golf Course by C.B. Macdonald
« Reply #52 on: July 07, 2008, 01:07:04 PM »
Dan

While you are on a roll, how about the Capitola Golf and Country Club, built and NLE in the 1920's?  As I remember, there are some great old photos in the local history museum.

rich

Bill_McBride

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Re: The Lido Golf Course by C.B. Macdonald
« Reply #53 on: July 08, 2008, 12:27:09 AM »
"The Lido project began in 1914 about the time Hitler was terrorizing Europe."

Hold the phone. I thought Blutarsky said Hitler bombed Pearl Harbor.

Bob


"Don't stop him, he's on a roll."

James Bennett

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Re: The Lido Golf Course by C.B. Macdonald
« Reply #54 on: July 08, 2008, 07:32:39 AM »
So, The Lido was 6400 yards according to the first article.  I think the marketing of golf courses must have really changed somewhere over the last century.  CB Macdonald said ...

"The width of the fair green will vary from 45 to 60 yards, according to the character of the hole. The teeing grounds will be 40 to 50 yards in length and quite in close proximity to the putting greens. The lengths are from the middle of the tee to the middle of the green, which means every hole can be shortened or lengthened 30 to 40 yards."

Today, that same course would have been promoted as 7000 yards but probably with fairways half the width.  To be fair, I was impressed that the USGA would play its Open with the tees as far forward on some holes as it did (I think Augusta did the same).  Perhaps this will gradually filter down to local Club management and we will have some variety again.

James B
Bob; its impossible to explain some of the clutter that gets recalled from the attic between my ears. .  (SL Solow)

TEPaul

Re: The Lido Golf Course by C.B. Macdonald
« Reply #55 on: July 08, 2008, 09:41:34 AM »
JamesB:

As far as I can tell fairways back in those days were mostly pretty much of a "standardized" width and the numbers Macdonald mentioned and was using with Lido were pretty much it. Today most fairways seem to be of basically standardized width around 30-35 yards.

I have never been able to determine why the basically standardized width back then was what it was. Some like Matt Shaeffer of Merion think it was pretty much a function of those old tractor drawn gang mowers which could be pretty wide.

J Sadowsky

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Re: The Lido Golf Course by C.B. Macdonald
« Reply #56 on: August 01, 2011, 09:31:30 AM »
The 4th Lido:

I personally think the direct route to the green at 4-Lido was too penal which caused most golfers to select the 3-shot route, negating much of the choice.

Fortunately Macdonald (and Raynor) decided to use it early in the front 9. At least if you screwed it up (easy to do) you had 14 holes left.

Remember there were winds at Lido and the 4th was very susceptible to a left to right, off ocean wind so a faded ball to the risk fairway could easily blow off the course into the channel.

Off fairway was sand and sea bents. The raised risk-fairway was considerably higher than the safer-route fairway. That route had all water all along the left and sidehill sand hazard on the (slice-side) right on the tee shot.

At Old Macdonald this “hole strategy” falls late in the round and a strong effort will be made to make both routes to the green the be both attractive off the tee as well as confusing and confounding off the tee.




I'm bumping this whole thread based on the other discussion on Lido.  I'd rather talk wildly about Lido with 30+ posts then talking about Pine Valley during Open week.

Anyway, this hole still exists.  RTJ left it essentially unchanged in the new routing, and it is hole 16 (I think - it's been several years since I've played the RTJ Lido).  It's a very clever hole, and the jewel of the course.  Unfortunately, driver is simply not a realistic option off the tee.  For all but the best players, and in all but the quietest winds, this means playing an iron off the tee into the center of the dual fairway, then playing a second shot into the layup area. 

The current green is not spectacular - I assume the original contours have not been maintained. 

I'd love more discussion on this hole - it is certainly one of the best I've played, and on what is otherwise a relatively mundane course.

Mike Cirba

Re: The Lido Golf Course by C.B. Macdonald
« Reply #57 on: August 01, 2011, 09:37:27 AM »
Justin,

The current hole at the RTJ Lido course is not the same hole that CBM built, but a clever reproduction on a different site.

The entirety of the original Lido course was west of today's public course, as proven here some time back by Tommy Naccarato with aerial photos.

Nigel Islam

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Re: The Lido Golf Course by C.B. Macdonald
« Reply #58 on: September 17, 2013, 09:53:37 AM »
I'm bumping this very good thread I stumbled across. It makes me wonder if Lido might have been the precursor to a lot of the modern courses where the ground game is not an option. It seems as if there were a lot of forced carries. Was Lido supposed to be a resort course, or was it a private club?

Greg Holland

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Re: The Lido Golf Course by C.B. Macdonald
« Reply #59 on: September 17, 2013, 11:46:20 AM »
If I recall correctly, Coore & Crenshaw have a very similar hole (the fourth) in their proposed routing for Pinehurst No. 9.  

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php?topic=54438.0

Greg Taylor

Re: The Lido Golf Course by C.B. Macdonald
« Reply #60 on: September 17, 2013, 12:03:47 PM »
The current RTJ Lido hole is different to the schematic above...

It was discussed in another thread some time ago; I will see if I can find it.

The "new" 16th has less of a pay off from the drive. The island landing area is in fact a split fairway, and there is no real advantage to be gained by going either way.

The drive is made harder by the fact that you can't see the landing area, it's obscured by reads and the like, so it's tough to judge yardages... from memory it certainly wasn't a driver.

Still a good hole, but what's the point of a split fairway if there is no pay off either way?!

Greg Taylor

Re: The Lido Golf Course by C.B. Macdonald
« Reply #61 on: September 17, 2013, 12:05:23 PM »

Josh Tarble

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Re: The Lido Golf Course by C.B. Macdonald
« Reply #62 on: September 17, 2013, 01:11:20 PM »
I think Lido is one of the most fascinating topics on GCA.com.  I don't have anything to contribute (yet) other than to say I enjoy reading all information that comes to light and is written.

Thomas Dai

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Re: The Lido Golf Course by C.B. Macdonald
« Reply #63 on: September 17, 2013, 01:28:02 PM »
We will have a hole something like the fourth at Lido at Old Macdonald on hole #17.  The Lido hole was inspired by a hole at Littlestone, England which did not have any water in play...
Which hole at Littlestone was the inspiration for the 4th at Lido?
All the best.

Bill_McBride

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Re: The Lido Golf Course by C.B. Macdonald
« Reply #64 on: September 17, 2013, 02:36:51 PM »
We will have a hole something like the fourth at Lido at Old Macdonald on hole #17.  The Lido hole was inspired by a hole at Littlestone, England which did not have any water in play...
Which hole at Littlestone was the inspiration for the 4th at Lido?
All the best.

#16.  There used to be fairway left of the huge bunker now on the left edge of the fairway.   Apparently growth of vehicular traffic over there caused the club to abandon this alternate fairway.  Now it's deep hay.   We almost lost Mike Malone over there!   ;D

Here's a diagram from the strokesaver.  You can see all the room left of the LH fairway bunker.  That was the alternate fairway which made it easier to get there in two.

« Last Edit: September 17, 2013, 02:46:09 PM by Bill_McBride »

Patrick_Mucci

Re: The Lido Golf Course by C.B. Macdonald
« Reply #65 on: September 17, 2013, 11:36:32 PM »
I think Lido is one of the most fascinating topics on GCA.com.  I don't have anything to contribute (yet) other than to say I enjoy reading all information that comes to light and is written.

Josh,

"The Evangelist of Golf" has a chapter on it.



Sean_A

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Re: The Lido Golf Course by C.B. Macdonald
« Reply #66 on: September 18, 2013, 03:07:02 AM »
We will have a hole something like the fourth at Lido at Old Macdonald on hole #17.  The Lido hole was inspired by a hole at Littlestone, England which did not have any water in play...
Which hole at Littlestone was the inspiration for the 4th at Lido?
All the best.

#16.  There used to be fairway left of the huge bunker now on the left edge of the fairway.   Apparently growth of vehicular traffic over there caused the club to abandon this alternate fairway.  Now it's deep hay.   We almost lost Mike Malone over there!   ;D

Here's a diagram from the strokesaver.  You can see all the room left of the LH fairway bunker.  That was the alternate fairway which made it easier to get there in two.



I think the tee was further left as well to make the left fairway a bit more enticing.  

Somebody mentioned penal holes from back in the day.  After I played Brancaster I thought it must have seemed extraordinarily penal to folks 100 years ago.  But then seasoned golfers from the 19th century would have been well used to blind shots over hills where a minimum carry was required.  

Ciao
Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Ashridge, Kennemer, de Pan, Eindhoven, Hilversumche, Royal Ostend, Alnmouth & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Patrick_Mucci

Re: The Lido Golf Course by C.B. Macdonald
« Reply #67 on: September 18, 2013, 10:51:51 PM »
Old friends of mine used to play Lido and they told me it was spectacular.

Sadly, they're now in the "fairway in the sky" and I can't ask them all of the questions I'd like to ask.

Josh Tarble

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Re: The Lido Golf Course by C.B. Macdonald
« Reply #68 on: September 19, 2013, 09:11:03 AM »
I think Lido is one of the most fascinating topics on GCA.com.  I don't have anything to contribute (yet) other than to say I enjoy reading all information that comes to light and is written.

Josh,

"The Evangelist of Golf" has a chapter on it.



I thought that there was and I would love to read the entire book, unfortunately 300 bucks is a bit too much for me.  Maybe one day I'll find a copy.

Nigel Islam

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Lido Golf Course by C.B. Macdonald
« Reply #69 on: September 19, 2013, 04:30:01 PM »
I think Lido is one of the most fascinating topics on GCA.com.  I don't have anything to contribute (yet) other than to say I enjoy reading all information that comes to light and is written.

Josh,

"The Evangelist of Golf" has a chapter on it.



I thought that there was and I would love to read the entire book, unfortunately 300 bucks is a bit too much for me.  Maybe one day I'll find a copy.


I'm in the same boat. My wife just told me "Tell me what books you want for Christmas and I'll get them?" So I'm going to take a life insurance policy out on her and tell her Evangelist of Golf, Confidential Guide, and The Life and work of Alister Mackenzie. I'll use the life insurance money to buy the books after she has the big one at the Amazon checkout ;)

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