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BHoover

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The Cleveland Browns of GCA
« on: September 18, 2013, 08:09:54 PM »
Which course is the Cleveland Browns of GCA? In other words, what course has a historic legacy but has, for whatever reason, become a pathetic shadow of its former self?

jeffwarne

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Re: The Cleveland Browns of GCA
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2013, 08:11:33 PM »
Lido, Timber Point
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Bill Brightly

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Re: The Cleveland Browns of GCA
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2013, 08:50:21 PM »
Buffalo CC? Once hosted US Open,  now Grover Cleaveland (municipal) golf course?

jeffwarne

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Re: The Cleveland Browns of GCA
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2013, 08:55:56 PM »
Forest Hills Augusta
Once a booming resort on a Ross course , site of Jones Southeastern Open win in Slam year 1930
now a bastardized semi Ross routing Palmer/ Minchew public course mess
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Rees Milikin

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Re: The Cleveland Browns of GCA
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2013, 09:23:43 PM »
Forest Hills Augusta
Once a booming resort on a Ross course , site of Jones Southeastern Open win in Slam year 1930
now a bastardized semi Ross routing Palmer/ Minchew public course mess

I went by there a few weeks ago and they put a lot of money into making the parking lot and clubhouse look nice, but nothing much was done to make the course what it once was, pretty sad considering that you have such top notch courses within a mile.

Brian Finn

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Re: The Cleveland Browns of GCA
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2013, 09:32:32 PM »
Jeff  is spot on with Lido.  It's nearly a perfect analogy.

Original is gone
Interim period of total absence
Replacement with same name, location (in Lido's case just a tad East), but none of the heritage or pedigree
Current version a sad shadow of predecessor

My condolences to you and other long-time Browns fans. Hopefully golf season lasts well into football season.
New for '24: Monifieth (Medal & Ashludie), Montrose (1562 & Broomfield), Panmure, Carnoustie (Championship, Burnside, & Buddon), Scotscraig, Kingsbarns, Elie, Dumbarnie, Lundin, Belvedere, The Loop (Red & Black), Forest Dunes, Arcadia Bluffs (South & Bluffs)...

Phil McDade

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Re: The Cleveland Browns of GCA
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2013, 10:46:37 AM »
Good gracious, Hoover -- our Tribe is in the middle of the playoff chase and you bring up the Browns?!?%&!?!??

Good question, and my answer lies not far away -- Firestone South. What was once viewed as a stern, major-worthy test is now seen as an overly treed, narrow, and one-dimensional course that's not that hard anymore.

BHoover

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Re: The Cleveland Browns of GCA
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2013, 10:48:42 AM »
Good gracious, Hoover -- our Tribe is in the middle of the playoff chase and you bring up the Browns?!?%&!?!??

Good question, and my answer lies not far away -- Firestone South. What was once viewed as a stern, major-worthy test is now seen as an overly treed, narrow, and one-dimensional course that's not that hard anymore.

I'm done wasting time on the Browns.  Go Tribe!!!!!!!

I think Firestone is a good choice.  But the description of Lido seems to be spot-on.

Bill Brightly

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Re: The Cleveland Browns of GCA
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2013, 10:50:44 AM »
Well, LIDO is NLE, there still is a team called the Browns...

BHoover

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Re: The Cleveland Browns of GCA
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2013, 10:54:06 AM »
Well, LIDO is NLE, there still is a team called the Browns...

No, the REAL Browns died when Art Model packed up and went to Baltimore in 1995.

Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: The Cleveland Browns of GCA
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2013, 11:11:27 AM »
Shouldn't we be asking "Which course that has offered a mediocre product for the last few decades has finally decided to scrap the pile of junk they've built and commit to a culture change?"

The Browns got a FIRST ROUND PICK for a RUNNING BACK yesterday! In 2013! In an era where there are 90 quality running backs in the league. When guys like Arian Foster and Alfred Morris contend for the rushing title every year while we continue to wait for guys like Darren McFadden, Reggie Bush, and Rashard Mendenhall to fulfill the potential that got them picked in the first round. It's funny how the Browns got panned a year ago for being dumb enough to spend a third overall pick on that position, but now a year later we're getting cries of "What are they thinking?!? Richardson could've taken them to 15 wins combined over the next three seasons! Now they're just stocking up on draft picks they'll use to replace their current junk roster over the next two years! Those idiots!"

With all that in mind, I'm going with Oakmont as their GCA equivalent:

Both beloved and heralded parts of a blue-collar town in the Midwest.
Both have a history of championships dating back many decades.
Both departed from the values that made them great for a long period of time. The Browns by scouting poorly and committing too much to the likes of Derek Anderson, Braylon Edwards, Tim Couch, and Kellen Winslow. Oakmont by planting a million trees and wrapping up too many of the resources that should've gone to their turf into tree roots instead.
Both made a wildly unpopular decision that caused a lot of public uproar - The Browns by trading a running back with a career 3.6 YPC and Oakmont by buying a bunch of chainsaws.

Oakmont, of course, reclaimed its rightful place as a trend-setter in the world of golf course maintenance and elite championship club. We'll see what happens with the Browns. But Cleveland fans have to relax. I've never seen a fanbase throw such a fit over their team bailing on a potential 4 win season, and I've never seen a team like the Colts so excited to spend a first round pick on a guy whose production they could've replaced by just signing Willis McGahee for the minimum and who probably won't be on the team by the time they're legitimate Super Bowl contenders anyway.
"There will always be haters. Thatís just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

BHoover

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Cleveland Browns of GCA
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2013, 11:24:54 AM »
I don't want to talk about the Browns anymore because I feel like a black cloud has lifted from my soul.  I'm not whining because they traded Trent Richardson.  I finally got fed up dealing with the years and years and years of ineptitude and losing.  I just don't have the heart to go through yet another rebuilding program.  So I'm jumping off the Cleveland Browns funeral procession.

I don't think Oakmont is as appropriate as the Lido example.  Oakmont has resurrected itself as a terrific course and tournament site.  The Browns aren't anywhere close.  Lido, however, is close to a perfect analogy.  It was once a great course.  The Browns were once a great team (in the 50s and 60s).  Now, both are fraudulent shadows of their former selves.

Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: The Cleveland Browns of GCA
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2013, 11:37:07 AM »
Well, I mean, Lido is totally gone. The Browns kind of are, but that comparison wouldn't be appropriate unless a new version of the Lido course with the same logo and everything were built, but it totally stunk.

It's the NFL though. The Dolphins went 1-15 and made the playoffs a year later. Careers and contracts don't last long. You can go from horrible to solid in just a year or two. The Saints were the 'Aints until they signed Drew Brees. The Bengals are making the playoffs almost every year. The Cardinals just went to a Super Bowl a few years ago. Hell, the Patriots had an embarrassing history until Drew Bledsoe got clocked and a kid named Brady got pressed into action. It just doesn't take long to go from a mess to a solid team as long as you do things right.

Unfortunately, picking RBs third overall and latching the franchise to the shoulders of Brandon Weeden isn't doing things right. I'm just saying there's plenty of potential for them to turn this thing around in the next few years if they can stay the course with Mike Lombardi. They're obviously a mess right now, but I don't understand the uproar over this trade. I think they clearly "won" it, though Indy didn't get fleeced or anything. I'm reading Bill Barnwell's breakdown right now, and I largely agree with him: http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/75160/the-browns-hit-reset-again-with-an-unprecedented-trade
"There will always be haters. Thatís just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

Sam Morrow

Re: The Cleveland Browns of GCA
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2013, 11:52:28 AM »
Sorry guys but there is no course like the Browns. It's a tournament. The Pebble Beach Pro-Am, storied history as the Crosby, moved to NC I think now back as a lesser event.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: The Cleveland Browns of GCA
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2013, 12:33:52 PM »
Well, LIDO is NLE, there still is a team called the Browns...

No, the REAL Browns died when Art Model packed up and went to Baltimore in 1995.

Brian,

Didn't Cleveland and Ohio make things difficult for Model to the point that he decided to move to a more friendly environment ?


BHoover

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Re: The Cleveland Browns of GCA
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2013, 01:17:05 PM »
No, the REAL Browns died when Art Model packed up and went to Baltimore in 1995.

Brian,

Didn't Cleveland and Ohio make things difficult for Model to the point that he decided to move to a more friendly environment ?

[/quote]

I don't want to derail this thread and turn it into a re-hashing of the Browns move to Baltimore. Bottomline, however is that the answer to your question depends on who you ask. Model initially refused offers to build him a new stadium. The city and county surely were not blameless, but Model ran out of money and then went scrambling for a sweetheart deal from other cities.  He found that in Baltimore, which ponied up cash that he needed to pay off his creditors.  He refused to sell a controlling stake in the Browns to his minority owner, Al lerner, who eventually bought the expansion Browns franchise. Incidentally, he went bankrupt again in Baltimore and ultimately was forced by the NFL to sell his team to Steve Busciotti, the current Ravens owner.

Paul Jones

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Re: The Cleveland Browns of GCA
« Reply #16 on: September 19, 2013, 03:44:13 PM »
St Andrews on Long Island.  It was the 1st course in US (i.e. Baltimore), then moved to current location (Cleveland) and redesigned by Jack Nicklaus.
Paul Jones
pauljones@live.com

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