[Garland Bayley]

I played this course yesterday, and Rosses Point today.

I would agree with Sean on a couple of things - 9 and 17 are fairly bland holes, but I thought 7,9 and 16 were fine holes.

It is also MILES in front of both Rosses Point, which has perhaps the most boring set of greens I have ever encountered, and Enniscrone, which was a major dud. 

I went out of the way to see Strandhill with one of my interns back a few years ago when this thread came up.  We didn't get to play because of a competition on the day, but I was underwhelmed from our walk around.  There were some interesting bits but the holes that played up over the side of the hill seemed pretty awkward.  Rosses Point may not have as good a set of greens but I would still choose it over Strandhill most any time [price not a factor in the Doak scale].  To each his own, I guess.

I have to agree with Mark on this. I played all three, and find his assessment to be dead on. I really found Rosses Point to be somewhat easy and somewhat boring compared to the barrel of fun at Strandhill.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Just back from a couple of weeks at Strandhill where we redid the bunker scheme on another 5 holes.

This time round, we were working on 7, 13, 14, 15 and 16.

Very happy with the results. 10 holes done now.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Perhaps Ally can edit the picture and show us what mods he is thinking of.

I just did a quick sketch, Garland... It's t'other way round to the above plan you did...

[Garland Bayley]

I am in Ally's camp.  Strandhill is hopeless in comparing favourably with Sligo purely on architectural merit.  Sligo's water holes alone make that point quite clearly.  The two courses are light years apart in quality, but not in fun.  Taking it all in, I slightly prefer Strandhill to Sligo because its cheap and contains enough quality to keep me happy.

Ciao

I am curious about what Sean means by water holes. I assume he means the holes having the stream, as opposed to the holes nearest the sea, as those holes don't really have water in play. As I recall the stream was used to good effect to influence strategy, or perhaps dictate tactics when your strategy is failing. In all likely hood a stream won't be moved, whereas any course can add or move bunkers to gain the same strategic influence. Here's hoping that Ally continues to enhance Strandhill so that the strategic nature equals or exceeds Rosses Point.


My experience here is that I played both in the same day, and had essentially equal games for both plays. I found Rosses Point to be easy and uninspiring, and Strandhill to be more difficult and more inspiring.


Rosses Point was so easy that I took second in the individual Stableford, but my team was easily defeated in the team Stableford at Strandhill.


When it comes to fun, Strandhill beats Rosses Point hands down. If your course rating system doesn't include fun for the average golfer, then perhaps you should reconsider your course rating system.

[Garland Bayley]

Perhaps Ally can edit the picture and show us what mods he is thinking of.


BingRouting_zpssfnr1qf0 by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

I just did a quick sketch, Garland... It's t'other way round to the above plan you did...


AllysRouting_zpsvs4udecw by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

[Sean_A]

Ally

Is the work finished?

Ciao

[Ally Mcintosh]

Ally


Is the work finished?


Ciao

Sean,


Not by a long shot.


We have redesigned and built the bunkering on 15 out of the 18 holes. The other three will be done when we build the two and two half new holes, which we are shooting for Q1 2019 followed by some work at the end of that year. We’ve also redone the 6th and 16th tees and changed the fairway mowing lines as well as other little tweaks.


The work will be essentially complete for a semi-official opening in early 2020.


However, all going well, we will be doing small bits of work for sometime after that, especially tee work.


Ally

[Sean_A]

Ally


Is the work finished?


Ciao

Sean,


Not by a long shot.


We have redesigned and built the bunkering on 15 out of the 18 holes. The other three will be done when we build the two and two half new holes, which we are shooting for Q1 2019 followed by some work at the end of that year. We’ve also redone the 6th and 16th tees and changed the fairway mowing lines as well as other little tweaks.


The work will be essentially complete for a semi-official opening in early 2020.


However, all going well, we will be doing small bits of work for sometime after that, especially tee work.


Ally

Ally


So the "old" routing is still in place?


Ciao

[Ally Mcintosh]

Yes it’s still in place Sean. Would expect it to change somewhere between late 2019 and summer 2020 all things going to plan.

[Sean_A]

Ally, what's the story?

I see the club has thrown all their chips in and want 150 Euro for international golfers next year. 😕

Ciao

[Ally Mcintosh]

Yes, I just got told that 2 days ago. No comment.


Have been on site for the last week doing the first tee-complex. Has proven to be a difficult job with far more clay and utilities to deal with than we initially suspected.

[Sean_A]

Strandhill is the never ending job!

Ciao

[Ally Mcintosh]

They only budget for a few weeks work a year. They didn’t work during Covid. That is reality for many clubs…. It’s not all multi-millionaire developers, don’t you know?!


That said, I hope we now have a clear path to completion. But it will be 2-3 years until all done.

[Ben Stephens]

Ally, what's the story?

I see the club has thrown all their chips in and want 150 Euro for international golfers next year. 😕

Ciao

Eek - isn't that a bit unfair and off putting. In England we don't have that sort of thing unless its EGU rates at Woodhall Spa.

[Niall C]

We have that in Scotland. Mind you it was US led developers who I think introduced it at Kingsbarns and Castle Stuart, and now they have it at Dumbarnie.


Niall

[Ally Mcintosh]

Almost every course in Ireland has a rack-rate and then a GUI rate. Most golfers - international included - should be able to negotiate themselves down from the rack rate at all but the very elite clubs.

[Jim Sherma]

Wow, 150 for Strandhill is crazy money. I loved the two days I spent there and felt that the course was wonderful. Of the four courses I played along that stretch I had Sligo as a clear favorite with Strandhill and Carne similarly placed and both above Enniscrone. I just felt that the Steele holes in the big dunes were very one dimensional from a golf perspective even if they were visually very nice. I thought the Hackett holes on the flatter land below the dunes left room for much better golf.


On my second day at Strandhill and after playing in the morning we went back in the afternoon after the sun came out and the wind died down. The two of us were waved out by the shop with no additional charge onto an empty course and completed one of my favorite days on all of my golf trips. You need to wonder where this upward price spiral will end for both the consumer as well as the clubs.


Sadly it seems like another part of the world where my willingness to spend is no longer viable. 

[Sean_A]

Jim

Willingness is the right word. Stick Strandhill in the US and folks would rave about a $150 green fee. Still, it's hard to stomach when you know it was 30 Euros ten years ago. That's Ireland all over though. Gouge the overseas market for all its worth...a very unappealing approach which leads to tour bus visitors and eventually spoils the experience. I won't go back at that price. They can take the piss out of someone else. My recent trip to Ireland was the first golf trip there in some time and now I remember why.

Ciao

[Dan_Callahan]

Jim
Gouge the overseas market for all its worth...a very unappealing approach which leads to tour bus visitors and eventually spoils the experience. I won't go back at that price. They can take the piss out of someone else.

This is really what it comes down to for me. I had to bite my tongue when listening to an admittedly younger Irish golfer go on and on about the Irish courses the "tourist Yanks" had ruined. While I get the point, and I head to the northwest for the exact reason that there are fewer Americans (and less people in general) than down south, I didn't love the vitriol when it's those very same "Yanks" who are getting gouged so he can pay less.


I try to rationalize the difference in fee by equating it to munis in the US, where if you live in the town, or sometimes the state, you pay a lower rate than outsiders. But with the prices going where they are going, it's getting harder and harder to feel good about it. The hidden gems aren't so hidden anymore. Which makes it all the more satisfying when you find a place like Bretwood in NH, which is just about as enjoyable a public course as there is in New England and it's only $42 walking.

[Sean_A]

Jim
Gouge the overseas market for all its worth...a very unappealing approach which leads to tour bus visitors and eventually spoils the experience. I won't go back at that price. They can take the piss out of someone else.

This is really what it comes down to for me. I had to bite my tongue when listening to an admittedly younger Irish golfer go on and on about the Irish courses the "tourist Yanks" had ruined. While I get the point, and I head to the northwest for the exact reason that there are fewer Americans (and less people in general) than down south, I didn't love the vitriol when it's those very same "Yanks" who are getting gouged so he can pay less.


I try to rationalize the difference in fee by equating it to munis in the US, where if you live in the town, or sometimes the state, you pay a lower rate than outsiders. But with the prices going where they are going, it's getting harder and harder to feel good about it. The hidden gems aren't so hidden anymore. Which makes it all the more satisfying when you find a place like Bretwood in NH, which is just about as enjoyable a public course as there is in New England and it's only $42 walking.

The price gouging is rampant throughout GB&I. To me the difference is in England and Wales, the club culture remains for most of the big guns. It doesn't feel like tour bus golf. Its a complete sell out in Ireland and they celebrate it. I can't wrap my head around this approach, but I guess I am in the minority. Thankfully Donegal hasn't gone ape shit yet, but I don't hold out much hope.

Ciao

[Thomas Dai]

It isn’t just “tourist yanks” who are being fleeced in Ireland. It’s anyone who isn’t a member of a club in Ireland affiliated to the Golf Union of Ireland. It’s being within the GUI that might get you the reduction.
Similarly in England there can be, not always, but can be, reduced ‘County Card’ rates if you’re a member of an English club. Same in Wales for Welsh clubs and presumably the same in Scotland for Scottish club members. But if you’re a member of a club in England or Wales or Scotland don’t expect a reduced fee in Ireland nor if you’re a member of an Irish club expect a reduced fee in Eng/Wal/Scot. And Eng/Wal/Scot club members should only expect to be able to gain a reduced fee in their own ‘country’.
But as the saying goes “to every action there’s an equal and opposite reaction” so let’s see what the reaction to golf prices will be in Ireland and other places as well over the next couple of years. Crystal ball time perhaps?
And as a related aside, it’s worth bearing in mind that as course conditioning expectations increase so does the cost of maintenance and upkeep and thus cost to play.

Atb

[Niall C]

I didn't love the vitriol when it's those very same "Yanks" who are getting gouged so he can pay less.

Dan


I totally disagree with your premis that US visitors are being asked to pay more so that Irish visitors can pay less. I don't believe that's the case at all. What I think happened is that some smart marketing type realised that firstly US visitors are generally willing to pay a lot more than local visitors and therefore they created a two tier market so they could set the highest price point for both.


Arguably, and its an argument I tend to agree with, the local price wouldn't be set so high if it wasn't for the amount taken in from overseas visitors. Whether those overseas visitors (mainly US I'd imagine) should be blamed for that is another question but personally I don't think so. But all the same it has had a significant effect on this side of the pond.


Golf is now much more expensive for local golfers. Their own membership subs maybe haven't increased dramatically but an awful lot of club members play rounds at other courses as visitors and therefore have seen a dramatic rise in the cost of their "away days" in recent years.


Niall

[Sean_A]

I didn't love the vitriol when it's those very same "Yanks" who are getting gouged so he can pay less.

Dan


I totally disagree with your premis that US visitors are being asked to pay more so that Irish visitors can pay less. I don't believe that's the case at all. What I think happened is that some smart marketing type realised that firstly US visitors are generally willing to pay a lot more than local visitors and therefore they created a two tier market so they could set the highest price point for both.


Arguably, and its an argument I tend to agree with, the local price wouldn't be set so high if it wasn't for the amount taken in from overseas visitors. Whether those overseas visitors (mainly US I'd imagine) should be blamed for that is another question but personally I don't think so. But all the same it has had a significant effect on this side of the pond.


Golf is now much more expensive for local golfers. Their own membership subs maybe haven't increased dramatically but an awful lot of club members play rounds at other courses as visitors and therefore have seen a dramatic rise in the cost of their "away days" in recent years.


Niall

Niall


My take is slightly different. The GI rate is a perk of membership to an affiliated club. I see no problem and actually think its a good idea to add value to memberships. I take issue with the 150 Euro rate. The club has jacked the fees so much in recent years that it completely puts me off. This has happened at many clubs, its just that Ireland has far fewer first/second tier courses and it stands out more when they jack their rates up. In the case of Strandhill putting the rate up 5X in about 10 years is unprecendented so far as I know.


Ciao

[jeffwarne]

I didn't love the vitriol when it's those very same "Yanks" who are getting gouged so he can pay less.

Dan


I totally disagree with your premis that US visitors are being asked to pay more so that Irish visitors can pay less. I don't believe that's the case at all. What I think happened is that some smart marketing type realised that firstly US visitors are generally willing to pay a lot more than local visitors and therefore they created a two tier market so they could set the highest price point for both.


Arguably, and its an argument I tend to agree with, the local price wouldn't be set so high if it wasn't for the amount taken in from overseas visitors. Whether those overseas visitors (mainly US I'd imagine) should be blamed for that is another question but personally I don't think so. But all the same it has had a significant effect on this side of the pond.


Golf is now much more expensive for local golfers. Their own membership subs maybe haven't increased dramatically but an awful lot of club members play rounds at other courses as visitors and therefore have seen a dramatic rise in the cost of their "away days" in recent years.


Niall

Niall


My take is slightly different. The GI rate is a perk of membership to an affiliated club. I see no problem and actually think its a good idea to add value to memberships. I take issue with the 150 Euro rate. The club has jacked the fees so much in recent years that it completely puts me off. This has happened at many clubs, its just that Ireland has far fewer first/second tier courses and it stands out more when they jack their rates up. In the case of Strandhill putting the rate up 5X in about 10 years is unprecendented so far as I know.


Ciao

It was 75 Euros when I played it in June 2018.
I guess you gotta charge double when you're giving half off.....

[Garland Bayley]

In September, I made a tee time at a club that had the visitor rate at 35 quid on their website. No mention of needing to be "affiliated." When they discerned that I was from the US, they decided I would have to pay 80 quid. I cancelled.

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