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John Kavanaugh

Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #25 on: April 30, 2008, 04:02:41 PM »
You guys are killing poor Shivas...for every three times he mentions he played college golf at Northwestern he claims to bomb it twice.  Another idol has fallen.

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #26 on: April 30, 2008, 04:05:17 PM »
Back to back triples on 13 and 14.  Not very impressed with these holes.  Can a hole be great (#14) when a high percentage of the tee shots end up in the swale?

I wouldn't say the greens on 11 and 17 were "dumbed down", but the pronounced left to right roll appears to be gone.

Pasa is mostly about the greens.  Home course knowledge is probably a huge advantage.  I once played the front nine with the head  pro and I think he had four or five birdies.

Of MacKenzie's dozen or so design principles, how many is the course true to?  Easy to walk, playable by all, lost balls are not among them.  It is possible that the course plays differently today than when he lived there, though all those uphill climbs could not have been easy back then.

TH,

I've played with Matt Ward, and Jon Spaulding is no Matt Ward.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2008, 04:08:37 PM by Lou_Duran »

Tom Huckaby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #27 on: April 30, 2008, 04:11:43 PM »
Lou:

I find 14 to be a great great golf hole, superior to 16, second only to 11 in the pantheon of great par fours on this great golf course.  WHY?  Because it's very possible to stay out of the swale - one has to just make the choice and execute.  It can be done short, or right, or left, each of which having it's own risks and benefits.  One can also say damn the torpedoes and hit it down in the swale, but as you likely saw, that's a very tough blind second shot.  On top of that the green is just brilliant in form and function... the angle is very very cool as young Jordan says, rewarding the brave tee shot hugging the left side with a much better angle in.  No, I love this hole my friend.

11 green I have already commented on.  17 is so much better - and harder - now with all that internal contour that anyone who would say that green is dumbed down completely misses the boat.  I don't think anyone has said that yet though... Boat-misser Kavanaugh just said "greens" plural without specifying any other than 11 - which he's also wrong about, for similar reasons, btw.

As for the course being true to Mackenzie's intentions, we have real historians in our midst who can answer that.  My belief is he didn't plant any trees... so it's not what he intended all that much.  But that doesn't lessen it's greatness all that much either, in my mind.

TH

ps - one doesn't have to equal the legend to be part of the legend.  ;)

John Kavanaugh

Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #28 on: April 30, 2008, 04:15:36 PM »
How about 16 green.  Is that better?  I seem to recall the most fun thing about Pasa being the fact that at anytime you might hit a putt so bad it sticks with you for a lifetime.  If this is now missing I can think of nothing better to call it than dumbed down.

Tom Huckaby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #29 on: April 30, 2008, 04:17:34 PM »
How about 16 green.  Is that better?  I seem to recall the most fun thing about Pasa being the fact that at anytime you might hit a putt so bad it sticks with you for a lifetime.  If this is now missing I can think of nothing better to call it than dumbed down.

I can assure you none of that is missing now, Boat-misser.  If anything it is now MORE severe than it used to be.  The only part that was flattened was the very front tongue, in an effort to allow a pin position there.

As for whether it is better now, well... go read the Restoration thread.

TH

Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #30 on: April 30, 2008, 04:32:26 PM »
   Where is the Fox anyways.


I'm here ... and Huckaby is quicker to the draw then I so he can continue to answer for me ...



   In a long drive hitting contest, no disrespect to you all, but my money is on the Jon-ster.  8)


Me too !!!
"... and I liked the guy ..."

David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #31 on: April 30, 2008, 04:49:44 PM »
Well, I never said it was my best, but it was pretty doggone good.

Plus, after the #10 and #11 fiascos, I had gone to the I've-got-nuthin/I-give-up/wussy-swing on #12... ;)

 
In a long drive hitting contest, no disrespect to you all, but my money is on the Jon-ster.  8)


Ward must be a monster off the tee because Spaulds prodigous power fade is a site to behold. That is when he's not hitting trees and yelling "rat turds"! ;)
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #32 on: April 30, 2008, 04:53:38 PM »
John,

I find your assessments of the new restored greens downright laughable in the face of you having yet to see and play them.  This was my first trip to Pasa, so I can't compare them to before, but they were plenty interesting and trying this go around.

Lou,

14 is not all that bad.  Jon and Mike both went long, I took the right road road and Evan chose to layup just past the womens tees.   ;)  4 tee shots and not a one of us found that swale...which I must add is one of the coolest fairways I've ever seen.  And I really loved how the swale had to be negotiated not only on the left side of the fairway but also in the middle part two.  You must admit its a better angle into that green even though its completely blind.   ;D

John Kavanaugh

Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #33 on: April 30, 2008, 04:56:07 PM »
Kalen,

After seeing your pic I find the fact that you discuss dunking a basketball laughable.

David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #34 on: April 30, 2008, 04:57:48 PM »
John,

I find your assessments of the new restored greens downright laughable in the face of you having yet to see and play them.  This was my first trip to Pasa, so I can't compare them to before, but they were plenty interesting and trying this go around.

Lou,

14 is not all that bad.  Jon and Mike both went long, I took the right road road and Evan chose to layup just past the womens tees.   ;)  4 tee shots and not a one of us found that swale...which I must add is one of the coolest fairways I've ever seen.  And I really loved how the swale had to be negotiated not only on the left side of the fairway but also in the middle part two.  You must admit its a better angle into that green even though its completely blind.   ;D



That is, IMHO, the greatness of the hole. If you take the right hand safe route, the angle coming in is awkward. But if you go left, the angle is much better, provided you don't mind an occasional side hill lie.
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Evan Fleisher

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #35 on: April 30, 2008, 05:01:39 PM »
John,

I find your assessments of the new restored greens downright laughable in the face of you having yet to see and play them.  This was my first trip to Pasa, so I can't compare them to before, but they were plenty interesting and trying this go around.

Lou,

14 is not all that bad.  Jon and Mike both went long, I took the right road road and Evan chose to layup just past the womens tees.   ;)  4 tee shots and not a one of us found that swale...which I must add is one of the coolest fairways I've ever seen.  And I really loved how the swale had to be negotiated not only on the left side of the fairway but also in the middle part two.  You must admit its a better angle into that green even though its completely blind.   ;D


Just playing safe...
Born Rochester, MN. Grew up Miami, FL. Live Cleveland, OH. Handicap 12.2. Have 24 & 21 year old girls and wife of 27 years. I'm a Senior Supply Chain Business Analyst for Vitamix. Diehard walker, but tolerate cart riders! Love to travel, always have my sticks with me. Mollydooker for life!

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #36 on: April 30, 2008, 05:03:29 PM »
Kalen,

After seeing your pic I find the fact that you discuss dunking a basketball laughable.
'

lol...well I can't recall having that discussion in here, but it was true in my college days.  No doubt I've put on just a wee bit of weight since then.

But if you ever want to have a little one on one on the hardwood, I can still bring it...even with my now 6 inch vertical leap!!   ;)

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #37 on: April 30, 2008, 05:04:44 PM »
John,

I find your assessments of the new restored greens downright laughable in the face of you having yet to see and play them.  This was my first trip to Pasa, so I can't compare them to before, but they were plenty interesting and trying this go around.

Lou,

14 is not all that bad.  Jon and Mike both went long, I took the right road road and Evan chose to layup just past the womens tees.   ;)  4 tee shots and not a one of us found that swale...which I must add is one of the coolest fairways I've ever seen.  And I really loved how the swale had to be negotiated not only on the left side of the fairway but also in the middle part two.  You must admit its a better angle into that green even though its completely blind.   ;D



That is, IMHO, the greatness of the hole. If you take the right hand safe route, the angle coming in is awkward. But if you go left, the angle is much better, provided you don't mind an occasional side hill lie.

I'm going to have to go ahead and agree with you on this one.  For me I'm such a hack, just wanted to find any part of the fairway and it worked out.   ;)

Jon Spaulding

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #38 on: April 30, 2008, 05:08:48 PM »
Well, I never said it was my best, but it was pretty doggone good.

Plus, after the #10 and #11 fiascos, I had gone to the I've-got-nuthin/I-give-up/wussy-swing on #12... ;)

That's my man.  Benham got incredibly lucky.  My money's still on you for pure distance.  Benham sucks.

TH

ps - will THAT draw out the Silver Fox?

Where is the Fox anyways.

On a side note, I told Jon Spaulding I would have to post about how I outdrove him on #7.  He hit it left, hit the trees, and dropped straight down at about 125 yards from the tee.  I then proceeded to easily outdrive him by about 85 yards with a straight ball 3 wood about 210 yards down the left.   ;) ;D

In a long drive hitting contest, no disrespect to you all, but my money is on the Jon-ster.  8)

Hi KB; your tee ball on #7 certainly crapped all over mine as it flew over. Confirmed and I will assume whatever position I deserve for that nasty pull off the tee.

I have no business trying to hit driver on that hole anymore, but it's just so damn tempting. I was last there in August and was just short of the mound guarding the green on the left. Of course every other time driver has led to a bogey on thehole, so experiment over, back to the 3 iron off the tee!

My newest swing thought is Benham's cadence. Highly effective; that man is the longest hitting octagenarian I've ever seen.
You'd make a fine little helper. What's your name?

Jon Spaulding

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #39 on: April 30, 2008, 05:10:28 PM »
Back to back triples on 13 and 14.  Not very impressed with these holes.  Can a hole be great (#14) when a high percentage of the tee shots end up in the swale?

I wouldn't say the greens on 11 and 17 were "dumbed down", but the pronounced left to right roll appears to be gone.

Pasa is mostly about the greens.  Home course knowledge is probably a huge advantage.  I once played the front nine with the head  pro and I think he had four or five birdies.

Of MacKenzie's dozen or so design principles, how many is the course true to?  Easy to walk, playable by all, lost balls are not among them.  It is possible that the course plays differently today than when he lived there, though all those uphill climbs could not have been easy back then.

TH,

I've played with Matt Ward, and Jon Spaulding is no Matt Ward.

Yo Lou; I've not played with Mr. Ward so please clue me in if I should be offended or honored.....
You'd make a fine little helper. What's your name?

Tom Huckaby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #40 on: April 30, 2008, 05:12:02 PM »
My newest swing thought is Benham's cadence. Highly effective; that man is the longest hitting octagenarian I've ever seen.

multiple audible yuks there.


 ;D ;D ;D

Jon, you just bring the A game on Monday.  Us elders do not want to have to contribute anything more than unwitty banter.

TH

ps - Ward is legendarily long off the tee... or so goes the legend... I too have neither met nor played with the man.  So methinks there is no offense. 

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #41 on: April 30, 2008, 05:13:28 PM »
Sorry Jon,

I just couldn't resist!!   ;)  Your tee ball on 1 when you had what 135ish for your 2nd shot into the green was 'nugh said!

I've only hit a tee shot that far once in my life and there was some heavy involvement/help from a cartpath.

John Mayhugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #42 on: April 30, 2008, 05:27:45 PM »
Add me to the list of those that liked 14.  I found the bottom of the swale with my tee shot and didn't have much trouble hitting an eight iron out.  Seems that the slopes are steep enough you wouldn't have to worry about the ball hanging up on the sidehill all that often.

Tom Huckaby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #43 on: April 30, 2008, 05:29:06 PM »
Add me to the list of those that liked 14.  I found the bottom of the swale with my tee shot and didn't have much trouble hitting an eight iron out.  Seems that the slopes are steep enough you wouldn't have to worry about the ball hanging up on the sidehill all that often.

John - I don't think I have ever seen a ball stay on the sides of those slopes.  I suppose it could happen when really wet, or un-mowed... but that would be very very odd.

Yep, I love 14.  Glad to read there are others who share the love.

TH

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #44 on: April 30, 2008, 07:06:54 PM »
"Yo Lou; I've not played with Mr. Ward so please clue me in if I should be offended or honored....."  Jon Spaulding

Jon S,

I try not to offend anyone, particularly a flat belly who shoots par and can hit it 40+ yards by me.

My estimation from playing with Matt once some three or four years ago is that he is 10-20 yards longer off the tee than you are.  He has the quickest, fullest backswing without losing the club at the top I have ever seen.  Remarkably, he generally keeps the ball between the trees.  On that day, he did get a little loose with a mid-iron on a 215+ yard par 3, lost the ball right, re-teed and knocked it in for a par.     

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #45 on: April 30, 2008, 07:27:12 PM »
Steve Pieracci hit a remarkable second shot out of the swale on 14.  He unluckily found a "down" lie, almost in a divot, so just punched his second toward the left front of the green.

Great plan  8)  The green slopes away and to the right, and his ball bounced onto the green and trickled all the way back to maybe 10' behind the pin.  From there he holed for his second straight birdie and opened up a 2 up on lead on young Jordan.

That angled green, falling away, in combination with the swale, makes 14 as good as most any hole on the course - IMHO.

That match was a lot of fun to watch, so much in fact that I almost forgot that Tim Bert was beating my brains out 5 & 4  >:( :-\

Tim played very well too, carding a 37 going out for a 3 up lead........good play anytime at Pasa.

David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #46 on: April 30, 2008, 07:39:50 PM »

That match was a lot of fun to watch, so much in fact that I almost forgot that Tim Bert was beating my brains out 5 & 4  >:( :-\

 


Well Bill, if Tim had had to play you at MPCC he would've had his hands full. You played wonderfully there!



I hope Pasa lived up to it's reputation for those that played it for the first time. Its a very special place to me and I get goosebumps everytime I play it. I did, however, have to remind Spaulding to remove his cap in front of the good Dr's home while posing for a pic.  ;) It was a small oversight that he quickly remedied. ;D
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Jon Spaulding

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #47 on: April 30, 2008, 08:39:25 PM »
Lou; duly noted. Would love to play with Ward at some point, once I finish my rating of SCA publics. See good shots, hit good shots sort of thing. I am rarely offended by much of anything.... other than tired movie references.
You'd make a fine little helper. What's your name?

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #48 on: April 30, 2008, 08:52:19 PM »

That match was a lot of fun to watch, so much in fact that I almost forgot that Tim Bert was beating my brains out 5 & 4  >:( :-\

 


Well Bill, if Tim had had to play you at MPCC he would've had his hands full. You played wonderfully there!


Well, I told you and Jack to stick around, it just took me another day!  I got back on my game at Pasa.  But then I usually do.  ;)

Tim Bert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #49 on: April 30, 2008, 09:10:03 PM »

That match was a lot of fun to watch, so much in fact that I almost forgot that Tim Bert was beating my brains out 5 & 4  >:( :-\

 


Well Bill, if Tim had had to play you at MPCC he would've had his hands full. You played wonderfully there!



I hope Pasa lived up to it's reputation for those that played it for the first time. Its a very special place to me and I get goosebumps everytime I play it. I did, however, have to remind Spaulding to remove his cap in front of the good Dr's home while posing for a pic.  ;) It was a small oversight that he quickly remedied. ;D

I would have had my hands full?  That might be the understatement of the year.  Bill shot 79.  I shot 104 from a set of tees that was playing at least 300 yards shorter.  As Bob, David M, and Kalen would tell you, I played a marvelous series of 250 yard drives followed by consistent approach shots that traveled 30 feet or so.

Unfortunately Bill caught me on the wrong day.  Fortunately if I can swing Tampa, we'll be re-united on the same team.

David S - This first-timer absolutely loved the course!  Of course, for me it was also a first-time visit to the state of California and I loved every bit of every course I played.

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