News:

This discussion group is best enjoyed using Google Chrome, Firefox or Safari.


Kyle Henderson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #100 on: May 03, 2008, 12:44:34 PM »


Fairway contours on #14...
"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

Jeff Doerr

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #101 on: May 03, 2008, 01:05:39 PM »
Restored and in all her glory...   :) :)






Tim - thanks for this one! Your angle and the BW really display how great this green is. I've not played it since the restoration, but I'm inclined to agree with MacKenzie, that this is one of the best 2 shot holes ever created.
"And so," (concluded the Oldest Member), "you see that golf can be of
the greatest practical assistance to a man in Life's struggle.

David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #102 on: May 03, 2008, 01:12:15 PM »
This has to be one of the most severe, ridiculous, tough, unfair pin positions in golf.  I loved it. 



That front right corner is where young Mr. Wall got his lesson(s) in dealing with a false front and pin right behind the ridge.

 :-\ :'(

Gents,

I've never been to Pasatiempo, but have seen quite a few pictures.  #3 is of particular interest to me, as it seems to be to all of you.  The short bunker - how far short of the green is that?  It looks to be yards short and doesn't appear to come into play.  Am I correct or sadly mistaken?

Scott


Far be it from me to mention this, since I did not myself play nearly to potential on that Sun. and Ed   played better than I, but the esteemed Mr Getka did find the bunker, unfortunately, but recovered with a fine shot. Any bunker can come into play provided the required shot is hit.
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #103 on: May 03, 2008, 01:14:37 PM »
Is there any particular reason for the cross bunkers?  They seem to be so far short of the green that they would only be in play for the "not so skilled" golfer.

Certainly not picking on Pasatiempo by any means, just asking.


"There is no thrill in driving over an ugly hazard"- Alister MacKenzie


"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

J_ Crisham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #104 on: May 03, 2008, 01:44:59 PM »
I thought the 10th was one was one of the more challenging holes we played at KP. Demanding off the tee for proper placement. Approach shot either long or mid iron. Very fine test of golf. Does this get overshadowed by the world class 11th?

David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #105 on: May 03, 2008, 02:02:24 PM »
I thought the 10th was one was one of the more challenging holes we played at KP. Demanding off the tee for proper placement. Approach shot either long or mid iron. Very fine test of golf. Does this get overshadowed by the world class 11th?


I think it probably does get overshadowed, Jack. It may affect peoples judgement of the hole because it's a converted par 5. This is purely speculation on my part.
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Dave_Miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #106 on: May 03, 2008, 03:40:35 PM »
I thought the 10th was one was one of the more challenging holes we played at KP. Demanding off the tee for proper placement. Approach shot either long or mid iron. Very fine test of golf. Does this get overshadowed by the world class 11th?

Jack:
To me 10 and 11 provided almost equal but very different challenges. Playing down to 10 and up to 11.  Both just great holes.
Fairways and Greens
Dave

Jordan Wall

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #107 on: May 03, 2008, 04:13:44 PM »


Fairway contours on #14...

Just wonderful...

What a golf hole!

rchesnut

Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #108 on: May 04, 2008, 08:59:12 PM »
Scott, to answer your question about the cross bunker on 3, I think it's a great bunker, and serves two purposes.  First is visual intimidation...it creates the impression that the green is completely surrounded, even though for a good player it does not come into play.  Second, it adds excitement for the short hitter who wants to lay up....without this bunker, it's a rather simple layup (and yes, at 217 all uphill, laying up is an option for a lot of golfers).  There's some fairway to the left of the bunker for those that can't clear it, but it adds a lot of interest for the large number of golfers who simply want to hit it short and try to get up and down. 

Rob

Scott Szabo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #109 on: May 05, 2008, 12:24:48 AM »
Rob,

I was told in an earlier post that the cross bunkers are perhaps 75 yards short of the green - in that case, the carry over the cross bunkers would be about 140 yards or so.  Unless my math is wrong, they would seem to only punish the "weaker" golfer without adding much for the "better" golfer.  Obviously, I've never had the pleasure of going round Pasatiempo, but the bunkers seem to be more penal to the average golfer without serving much of a purpose for the more accomplished player.

I must say I love the look of the bunker and how it fits into the hole, but unless I'm way off base with my above statements, it seems to be out of place.

Scott
"So your man hit it into a fairway bunker, hit the wrong side of the green, and couldn't hit a hybrid off a sidehill lie to take advantage of his length? We apologize for testing him so thoroughly." - Tom Doak, 6/29/10

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #110 on: May 05, 2008, 12:28:23 AM »
Scott,

I find nothing wrong with the random, specific challenge for the weaker player.  Why should they be denied the pleasure of carrying a cross bunker with a solid shot?

rchesnut

Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #111 on: May 05, 2008, 02:26:29 AM »
I think your math is about right Scott.  Personally, I like the idea that even a shorter hitter has to think and be challenged a bit off the tee on occasion.  It's not so penal  as to be impossible...as you can see from the picture, the fairway is mowed nicely to the left of the bunker, giving the short hitter, if they choose, a path around the bunker.  I like the fact that the bunker sits at an angle from the tee, making it easier to clear the left side than the right side.  As it's positioned, it strongly encourages the short hitter to aim over the left half of the bunker, or just to the left of the bunker...this angle (by pushing the short hitter left) actually helps the weaker golfer, as this green is far more receptive if approached from the left side.  Without the bunker, the weaker player might aim down the middle and be surprised by the right cant of the fairway, which would push their ball right and thus force a far more difficult second shot. 

Even good golfers aim at the left edge of the green here, since a wayward shot is penalized so heavily with the trees.  So for me, the bunker adds a strong visual element for good golfers, and interesting options (with an heroic carry) for the shorter golfer that might actually help set up their second shot.  I've watched players of all abilities, women, seniors play this hole, and it poses a strong challenge with a lot of interest for all of them...it's also a great example of how MacKenzie liked 1/2 par holes.  This isn't really a par three, it's a par 3 1/2, with a green complex so challenging that even a short hitter who "lays up" has a sporting chance in a match against a longer hitter golfer who goes for the green.

Scott, I should note that this hole was actually about 240 yards long when the course opened, and has been shortened over the decades...there's still a debate as to whether the club should push the tee area back to fully "restore" it.  So at 240, that cross bunker comes into play even more for the average golfer, and as originally designed it might make more sense to you even if you don't agree with my analysis of the hole as it is today. 

Rob

Scott Szabo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #112 on: May 05, 2008, 10:15:02 AM »
Thanks Rob for the analysis.  It originally seemed out of place to me, but with the back tee at 240 it could come into play for almost every level of golfer, if the shot was mishit, or if it played into a significant amount of wind. 

This renovation has fascinated me from the start.  I must say it looks terrific.

Scott
"So your man hit it into a fairway bunker, hit the wrong side of the green, and couldn't hit a hybrid off a sidehill lie to take advantage of his length? We apologize for testing him so thoroughly." - Tom Doak, 6/29/10

Greg Hohman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #113 on: April 15, 2024, 09:25:27 AM »
Its on Peacock this week (Western Intercollegiate).
newmonumentsgc.com

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #114 on: April 15, 2024, 11:01:52 AM »
Schedule for the TV broadcast of the Western Intercollegiate here:

https://www.westernintercollegiate.golf/tournament/details/

On both the Golf Channel and Peacock.
 
Worth noting that they are flipping the nines for the tournament. They want to feature the newly restored front nine on TV by having it play as the back nine.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2024, 11:08:13 AM by David_Tepper »

Pete_Pittock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #115 on: April 15, 2024, 11:01:08 PM »
Wow.
Green and white, thought I was watching an extended version of The Masters.  Should re-name as Pasatiempo National.
Hope they have enough money to maintain. Hard to believe they went with bent greens where poa annua is prevalent and likely will overrun what was just planted.


Realize that it is folly to "rate" a golf course from aerials and photography.  Studied response will have to wait for a year or more until the other nine is completed and someone who has played before and after chimes in.

P.S. Mackenzie's ashes were spread over the golf course. I hope he is not disturbed.

« Last Edit: April 15, 2024, 11:15:55 PM by Pete_Pittock »

Jackson C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #116 on: April 16, 2024, 10:23:46 AM »
Wow.
Green and white, thought I was watching an extended version of The Masters.  Should re-name as Pasatiempo National.
Hope they have enough money to maintain. Hard to believe they went with bent greens where poa annua is prevalent and likely will overrun what was just planted.


Realize that it is folly to "rate" a golf course from aerials and photography.  Studied response will have to wait for a year or more until the other nine is completed and someone who has played before and after chimes in.

P.S. Mackenzie's ashes were spread over the golf course. I hope he is not disturbed.


I played it last week.
Certainly the timing right after the Masters is being leveraged, in a good way.
I agree that judgement should be withheld until next year when the course is completely renovated.
The greens on the front are still growing in and slower than the back.  But not sure if that is evident from the broadcasted play.  Seemed the players where challenged on the back (old front nine) greens with the slopes.  Although the slopes on the renovated greens have been soften.
"The secrets that golf reveals to the game's best are secrets those players must discover for themselves."
Christy O'Connor, Sr. (1998)

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back