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Jordan Wall

  • Karma: +0/-0
Pasatiempo
« on: April 30, 2008, 03:04:53 PM »
I started a thread on Pebble, and I think Pasatiempo is equally worthy of one.  I loved Pasa - I did not really know what to expect, whatever I did, it exceeded those expectations.  I guess I knew it was going to be good, I just did not know how good.


A few observations:

The bunkering was fantastic.  The way to bunkers flowed with the propery, fitting perfectly into every hole, was magnificent.  Holes like 3, 4, 10, and 13 had some of the best bunkering I have ever seen.  I could not believe how well the bunkers played and fit into their surrounds - just wonderful.

The greens were great.  Bold contours on some, subtlety on others, but each green was original and great.  The 16th green was perhaps the greatest green I have ever seen in person.  I two putted from 126 feet, 12 feet below the hole on the front to a back pin.  I couldn't believe it as I watched my shot spin off the top tier to the front collar.  That is a great example of how the greens work - if you dont hit a great shot, you will be faced with some tough putts.  Good shots aren't always good enough.  Those greens were great.

Hole 14 almost deserves its own thread.  I never imagined a hole with such cool and imaginative fairway contours.  The little valley which bisected that fairway was nothing short of magnificent.  The way the green angled at the player one may play the hole 50 times and wonder still the best way to play it.  Simply an amazing golf hole.

The par-3's were fantastic.  My personal favorite was #3, where I took a big X after several chip shots rolled down to my feet.  The way the bunkers were cemented into the hillside were gorgeous and played extremely tough.  Each par-3 was also distinctly different, requiring a different shot and club.  There were two uphill par-'3, one flat par-3, and two downhill par-3's, showing off how Mackenzie used the land to perfection in order to diversify the one shot holes.  I should make special note of the great green contours on 8...just fantastic.

Overall the course was great.  It was my first Mackenzie, and I am so enthused to continue playing his courses.  The design was amazing, the course was beautiful, and accompanied with a great group of people, it made for an extremely enjoyable day.

Cheers.

Tom Huckaby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2008, 03:08:21 PM »
Jordan - I love ya man, it was fun to meet you briefly,and I hate to be a killjoy, but... not only has Pasatiempo in general been discussed more often than damn near every course outside of Pennsyvlania, but note:

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,34328.0.html

Not sure another thread is needed.  But I do generally agree with all that you say, and having played #14 fifty times, well yes you are right, I still am not sure about the best way to play it.

 ;)
« Last Edit: April 30, 2008, 03:10:35 PM by Tom Huckaby »

Jordan Wall

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2008, 03:10:19 PM »
Tom,

I thought that was a thread on the restoration at Pasa.  However, I'd be more than happy to delete this and copy my post to that thread.

Cheers,
Jordan

Tom Huckaby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2008, 03:11:28 PM »
Tom,

I thought that was a thread on the restoration at Pasa.  However, I'd be more than happy to delete this and copy my post to that thread.

Cheers,
Jordan

Well it is intended to be, but of course general thoughts are included.

OK, what the hell, let's dissect Pasa again.  Don't mind me, I am a terrible curmudgeon about these things.

 ;D

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2008, 03:13:17 PM »
Ah come on Tom, don't discourage the kid from sharing his exuberant enthusiam in a new thread....even if it is redundant.  ;)

Any conversations about the course must also include the 11-12 hole sequence which was just brilliant.  Maybe chop some more of those trees down in the barranca to open up some more options?   ;D

John Kavanaugh

Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2008, 03:13:30 PM »
Jordan

Congrats on looking fantastic.  How did you play number 11?

Jordan Wall

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2008, 03:14:29 PM »
John,

Thanks, I'll take that from you!

I hit 3-wood, 3-wood, lob wedge, putt and made par on 11.

John Kavanaugh

Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2008, 03:17:11 PM »
John,

Thanks, I'll take that from you!

I hit 3-wood, 3-wood, lob wedge, putt and made par on 11.

Which 3-wood was a layup...or both?

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2008, 03:17:19 PM »
11 is a tough hole that plays severly uphill....much more so than it looks in pictures.

Mike Benham hits its a long way and it took him driver 5 iron to reach that green.

I took the 3 wood, 4 iron, Sand wedge route, but missed the par putt.   :-[

Tom Huckaby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2008, 03:18:15 PM »
Ah come on Tom, don't discourage the kid from sharing his exuberant enthusiam in a new thread....even if it is redundant.  ;)

Any conversations about the course must also include the 11-12 hole sequence which was just brilliant.  Maybe chop some more of those trees down in the barranca to open up some more options?   ;D

You are a bad, bad man, Kalen.

But gee, great idea re 11-12.  I praise your originality.

 ;D

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2008, 03:19:46 PM »
Ah come on Tom, don't discourage the kid from sharing his exuberant enthusiam in a new thread....even if it is redundant.  ;)

Any conversations about the course must also include the 11-12 hole sequence which was just brilliant.  Maybe chop some more of those trees down in the barranca to open up some more options?   ;D

You are a bad, bad man, Kalen.

But gee, great idea re 11-12.  I praise your originality.

 ;D

Hey everyone knows its not about who comes up with the idea, but who is first to market with it!!   8)

John Kavanaugh

Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2008, 03:23:32 PM »
It took me all of 6 shots to complete 11 and 12...and that was before Doak dumbed down the greens.  How about the par 5's...Jordo...did you reach any in two?

Tyler Kearns

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2008, 03:24:34 PM »
The par-3's were fantastic.  My personal favorite was #3, where I took a big X after several chip shots rolled down to my feet.  The way the bunkers were cemented into the hillside were gorgeous and played extremely tough.  Each par-3 was also distinctly different, requiring a different shot and club.  There were two uphill par-'3, one flat par-3, and two downhill par-3's, showing off how Mackenzie used the land to perfection in order to diversify the one shot holes.  I should make special note of the great green contours on 8...just fantastic.

Jordan,

While I think the par threes do, as you suggest play differently given the topography, I was struck by the fact that 4 of the 5 one-shotters play in virtually the same direction, thus negating the influence of the wind to some degree. I realize that Pasatiempo is routed on an interestingly shaped parcel of land, and that certainly played a role in the orientation of the one-shotters. Personally, I like to see them play to as many points on the compass as possible, but obviously, not at the expense of the overall quality of the course.

TK

Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2008, 03:26:16 PM »

Mike Benham hits its a long way and it took him driver 5 iron to reach that green.



Technically, I was over the green ;)
"... and I liked the guy ..."

Tom Huckaby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2008, 03:26:47 PM »
Kalen:  fully agreed.

Want me to search and find the 50 previous times I've posted that exact suggestion on here?

 ;D

But what the hell, let's go over it again:  I do believe full tree removal would improve each of 11 and 12, each of which are great holes already for sure.  An option of hitting one's tee ball left over the barranca on 11 would make for a viable safe play for the shorter hitter, as well as a tempting play for the longer hitter, the goal being to get to a short distance in, with a better angle.  The reverse direction going downhill toward 12 isn't as big of a deal, as most will stay right.. but a left tee shot with a fade could reach the green if they also cut it all as fairway.  It would be very cool, but of course can never happen due to our litigious society.

TH

ps - I witnessed JK's demolition of 11 and 12 and it was impressive.  Nevertheless I would not agree that 11 green is dumbed down... and 12 is unchanged.  What is true is that he had some great holes that day, and it was very fun to witness.  BTW JK there's a new back tee on 13 you haven't seen which lengthens it by an effective 30 yards and makes reaching quite problematic.  6 is also a lot longer too.  So while I do believe Jordan could still reach... well... you didn't play the same course he did.

Tom Huckaby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2008, 03:30:13 PM »
It took me all of 6 shots to complete 11 and 12...and that was before Doak dumbed down the greens.  How about the par 5's...Jordo...did you reach any in two?

Barney, they're both significantly longer now.  I hit a good drive on 6 and had no chance.  I hit a better drive on #13 and still had 260 in....they've both been lengthened significantly.

Great minds, Sybil - read the PS above.

But what's up with the weakstick?  Benham reached 13.  You are losing it.

 ;D

John Kavanaugh

Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2008, 03:33:54 PM »
I thought Doak admitted himself that he dumbed down 11 green because to was too steep for people who lack the touch to play fast greens on severe slopes.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2008, 03:34:26 PM »
It took me all of 6 shots to complete 11 and 12...and that was before Doak dumbed down the greens.  How about the par 5's...Jordo...did you reach any in two?

Barney, they're both significantly longer now.  I hit a good drive on 6 and had no chance.  I hit a better drive on #13 and still had 260 in....they've both been lengthened significantly.

Great minds, Sybil - read the PS above.

But what's up with the weakstick?  Benham reached 13.  You are losing it.

 ;D

Benham not only reached but he hit a Tiger-esque 3 wood into that green that flew at least as high as a short iron and came to rest approx 15 feet from the green.

Tom Huckaby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2008, 03:36:57 PM »
I thought Doak admitted himself that he dumbed down 11 green because to was too steep for people who lack the touch to play fast greens on severe slopes.

If Tom Doak said the words after "because" above, then I will eat my hat.

My belief is that green was changed because at speeds over 7, no part of it was pinnable other than the incredibly easy spot to which you fired your fine approach and canned your flat six foot putt.

Sybil:  I witnessed at least two drives at ODM that showed me you still have the length.  So whereas I believe you now suck and didn't actuallyr each, well... 260 in shows me a lack of strength as compared to the Silver Fox (who had 245) which does surprise me.

TH

Tom Huckaby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2008, 03:40:20 PM »
The man stated in emails to me 245 in.

Thus for the mathematically challenged, 15 yards past you.

So again I ask, what's up with the weakstick?

 ;D

John Kavanaugh

Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2008, 03:46:55 PM »
I hate to say this but Dave is weak because he chose the new name to relate to each of his seven chins, not personalities.  Sorry guy...I do hope it was just a bad pic.

Tom Huckaby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2008, 03:48:35 PM »
I hate to say this but Dave is weak because he chose the new name to relate to each of his seven chins, not personalities.  Sorry guy...I do hope it was just a bad pic.

Now that got audible yuks.

But I am with ya Schmidty - I'm just lucky they got no pictures of me.  But a fellow man of weight gave me a great clue years ago... when photographed, look up.

 ;D

Tom Huckaby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #22 on: April 30, 2008, 03:50:36 PM »
Well, I never said it was my best, but it was pretty doggone good.

Plus, after the #10 and #11 fiascos, I had gone to the I've-got-nuthin/I-give-up/wussy-swing on #12... ;)

That's my man.  Benham got incredibly lucky.  My money's still on you for pure distance.  Benham sucks.

TH

ps - will THAT draw out the Silver Fox?

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #23 on: April 30, 2008, 03:57:20 PM »
Well, I never said it was my best, but it was pretty doggone good.

Plus, after the #10 and #11 fiascos, I had gone to the I've-got-nuthin/I-give-up/wussy-swing on #12... ;)

That's my man.  Benham got incredibly lucky.  My money's still on you for pure distance.  Benham sucks.

TH

ps - will THAT draw out the Silver Fox?

Where is the Fox anyways.

On a side note, I told Jon Spaulding I would have to post about how I outdrove him on #7.  He hit it left, hit the trees, and dropped straight down at about 125 yards from the tee.  I then proceeded to easily outdrive him by about 85 yards with a straight ball 3 wood about 210 yards down the left.   ;) ;D

In a long drive hitting contest, no disrespect to you all, but my money is on the Jon-ster.  8)

Tom Huckaby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pasatiempo
« Reply #24 on: April 30, 2008, 04:01:14 PM »
Kalen - youngsters under 40 are ineligible.

But yes, the prodigious length of Mr. Spaulding has reached Wardian legendary status.  Let's just hope to hell he shows it next Monday at our tournament.  I want to sit in the cart and watch, not contribute scores in our two best scores out of four format.

TH

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