[Lloyd_Cole]

Lloyd C,

What is it about Sotogrande that made such an impression?  Valderrama was in renovation for the Ryder Cup so I didn't get to play it.  Aren't the two courses very similar, with the newer Valderrama maintained to a much higher standard?  I liked Sotogrande better than Las Brisas, but I had expected more than an upgrade on the much too common RTJ Sr. model.  Some nice ground movement through parts of the course and cool cork trees, but nothing real unique.
  

Lou

Sotogrande was nothing like Valderama. It is wide open for much of the front nine with plenty of room for a hook or slice yet rewarding the correctly placed drive, often with better visibility, or stance. I like that, it doesn't dictate to you. It tightens up when the water comes into play later in the round, but not much. I'd say it was a great resort course where you can go low, but you won't unless you play well. I did play very well by my standards and Lawrence, my old pal, who is about the same as I am as a player really struggled, being just slightly off his game...

Valderama is another kind of fun and many would say it is no fun at all. It is Carnoustie difficult. I won the gross with a 91. I don't mind that, we weren't playing medal anyway except for the 'you won't break 90' side bet. It is very narrow and the bunkers in the air are in play almost every shot. Wrong side of the fairway is not dead, but it is hugely disadvantaged versus the correct play. Distance control is also key as many of the holes dogleg through the cork oaks. This is a great challenge, but not much of a mental one because if you know how far you can hit it, there is one obvious strategy per hole. I recall very little 'should I try to carry the corner?' - it was more 'here's your task - execute.' I think it might be more fun, in that respect for the long hitter, as there would be more risk reward options. But that 18th that you see the pros cut the corner - Not an option for we humans - I hit a good drive as close as I dared to the tree line and had 240 uphill left and I almost got there!!!  My one really terrible drive left me in the oaks with only one recovery angle - straight back to the tee. Worse than 3 off the tee really as I wasn't teeing up the next one. It is very beautiful, greener and more secluded than Sotogrande and they know it. Visitors are not welcomed so much as tolerated, which at almost Eu300, is disgraceful.

It is a great spot for a getaway if you have a few $$ to spare. We went late January - it was deserted and weather was fine. San Roque, where we stayed,  was fun too, and tough. If we returned I'd play Sotogrande every morning and alternate the others in the afternoons.

[Tim Book]

A few from the left coast that I had little expectations but was pleasantly surprised would be

Darkhorse G.C in Auburn Calif. - Fantastic Keith Foster design in the Sierra foothills.

Running Y Ranch - Most Palmer designs draw a critical eye from GCA, but for me this one was a great track

San Diego CC - Didn't know much about the course, but walked away eagerly awaiting another invite.

[Chris Avore]

believe it or not i was pleasantly surprised by Torrey South--only because it's kicked in the teeth so often that I was expecting a completely chewed up muni that was artificially long and gouged non-residents solely because of the television exposure.

while certainly not the best course i've ever played, and not entirely the best experience (6 hour round? didn't completely mind since I played in February and it was 30 degrees back home on the east coast) it's easy to say my expectations were a lot lower going into the round than my opinions following it...

[Kalen Braley]

Chris,

If you lower your expectations enough then every course becomes a pleasant surprise!!  

[Sean Leary]

Wilmington CC (South)

The Captains, on Cape Cod.  The original 18 is quite good.

Eastward Ho!.  I thought it would be good. It is better than that.

[John Kirk]

Juniper GC and Bandon Crossings GC.

Generally, golf courses that receive less fanfare usually exceed my expectations.  Golf is fun and there are lots of nice courses.  Stating the obvious for you is...

Just another JK

[J Sadowsky]

The Legends Golf Club in Clermont, FL is one.  The old Green course at Bethpage is another (if you ignore the pace of play issues).  RTJ's Lido Golf Club, so long as you aren't trying to compare it to the original was more fun than I thought as well - I think there, the only problem is the course is a little too flat, and that adding contours (particularly to the greens) could make that a great course.

[Brian Cenci]

*Franklin Hills - great Ross course that may be the best in the Detroit area

*Wolf Creek - some said I would absolutely hate it before I played, but it was an overall solid course and I love the "golf on steroids" layout

*Tanglewood Park (Championship) - for the price ($35 or less) you can't beat it.  A great course.

*Yeamans Hall - didn't think a course that flat could be that much fun.

-Brian

[J Sadowsky]

Wow, world class golf courses can "pleasantly surprise" you guys?  Remind me to exclude you from any of my juries.

[Lou_Duran]

Lloyd,

I spent three weeks in Marbella during the early 1990s marketing for sale several companies in the hotel, golf, and residential development businesses.  I played Golf Rio Real and Los Naranjos numerous times, Las Brisas, Sotogrande, and couple of others less frequently.  Sotogrande was my favorite, though I can't say I was overwhelmed by any of them.  I wish Valderrama had been opened, but based on your description, it is not my type of course anyways.

The surroundings at Sotogrande were very pleasant, but I would have a hard time living there.  Hopefully they've made some progress with their roads and freeway.  My recollection of Sotogrande is that I spent quite a bit of time on the backside trying to hit punch shots to elevated greens from under the trees, and that I had a hard time getting the ball up and down.  Thanks for the input.   

[Billsteele]

NCR South-I have never been that impressed with the Dick Wilson work that I had seen. Coldstream in Cincinnati is a very challenging course but if you looked at it with no context you would swear you are in Florida (with a number of retention ponds used as hazards and some uninspiring holes). His work at Scioto really sucked much of the Ross character out of a grand old course (especially the dreadful 8th hole-which one of the teaching pros at Scioto considers "horrible"-again, Florida transplanted to Ohio). So my expectations were very low at NCR. Nevertheless, it is a terrific golf course. While the first hole is not too memorable, the remainder of the golf course is challenging and fair...a classic parkland test with nary a water hazard. In particular, the back nine is very strong...beginning with a heaving and yawning par five, followed by a neat medium length par four with a challenging approach into a narrow green with great bunkers, a world class par 4 at number 12 and a very good par three at number 13. The other thing that stood out to me at NCR were the greens...terrific movement and contours with false fronts (as on the par five 10th) or drop-offs (such as the first par five on the front...I believe it is number 5). I put it toward the top of my Ohio list (with The Golf Club being at the top). I assumed that NCR would be comparable to Firestone South (which I find to be a challenging course but, for the most part, uninteresting). Boy, was I wrong.

[mark chalfant]

Bill

I totally agree, the routing over the hilly terrain makes for a great tee shot
course. several excellent par fours and par fives. As you said a magnificent set of  large, bold ,undulating greens. Scenic, elegant,challenging, above all fun to play !!

[Scott Whitley]

Pennard
Tenby
Nefyn & District
back nine at Porthmadog
Cruit Island
Rosapenna Sandy Hills links

[Lou_Duran]

Bill Steele,

I love NCR-South , even with that ball-busting, round wrecking first hole.  Nice topography and a very solid course throughout.  Many fond memories of driving out from Columbus in the morning for a quick 18 then down to Cincinnati to catch the Reds play Pittsburgh in twi-night double-headers.

[Dan Herrmann]

Merion WEST.  In most cities, this could easily be the best golf course in town.  For Merion, it's not even their best.

Hidden Creek - who knew you could do that at the edge of the NJ Pinelands.  A bit of the Sandhills in NJ.

Torrey Pines NORTH - OK - it's not the best architecture anywhere, but the combination of the course, the scenery, and the sounds of the ocean are tough to beat - especially for a muni.  The 6th hole is very memorable.

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