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Jeff Goldman

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New Nicklaus Signature Course
« on: July 30, 2002, 11:32:10 AM »
Does anybody have any info on a new Nicklaus course near Blackwolf Run called something like "The Bull at Pinehurst Farms"?  Apparently, he had some significant involvement in the course development (they have pix of him on the grounds on their website), but other than the usual blather, the website doesn't say much.  I think its the first Nicklaus public course in the Chicago - Kohler corridor (isn't 5 too many courses for that place?)  And, in the spirit of the topic on anonymous posters, I am Jeff Goldman, a lawyer in Chicago and somewhere between a 9 and 15 handicap, depending upon whether I have time to practice, mostly a lurker, and I love the site.  Thanks!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
That was one hellacious beaver.

A_Clay_Man

Re: New Nicklaus Signature Course
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2002, 12:02:02 PM »
Jeff- You bring up a good point about saturation. I believe the numbers would suggest yes, 5 is way too many for the stated populous. I just think somebody had the Idea to skim a few bucks off the Kohler tourist trade. I think it's flawed unless the course could somehow be better than Herb's masterpieces.

Otherewise, spending more than the requisite 2-3 days to play all of them, well, there just isn't much to hold'em.
Maybe as an overflow but with the market on a slide I doubt we'll see the old days for a while.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Jeff Goldman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New Nicklaus Signature Course
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2002, 12:08:16 PM »
BWR already has e-mail specials on the meadow and irish courses -- $98 before 9 and after 1 every day (I played with my nephew on saturday and was paired up with  a guy who works for golf magazine -- he was stunned at the 15th of hte meadow course -- 195 from the blue tees with the pin front right, and he and his partner were long left (putts had to be over 100 feet).
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
That was one hellacious beaver.

Ben Cowan-Dewar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New Nicklaus Signature Course
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2002, 12:15:25 PM »
As Kohler is our most popular destination, I can tell you that it is almost impossible to get anyone into the hotel for the rest of the year.  Second to that, we had a group of eight who wanted to play the Straits, first time was sometime in October for that many.

So yes there is an overflow market possibility, but I think that they have real estate planned as a key money maker.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Jeff_McDowell

Re: New Nicklaus Signature Course
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2002, 12:58:28 PM »
The golf course was a family farm, and they apparently made a lot of money in the cattle business. There are some lots, but not too many.

I've seen routing plans and existing contours. The site seems nice, and the routing uses the site well.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

A_Clay_Man

Re: New Nicklaus Signature Course
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2002, 01:00:37 PM »
Jeff- The 15th is Mercy one of the original holes. The putt was probably 100 feet but you didn't mention thru what. The hole has a kind of half biaritz half Maxwell roll in the left center back. Whats interesting is that the biarittz/ roll is 90 degrees from the norm, As I also recal Shivas sugggested soemthing like that a few months back. That whole stretch is heaven.

Ben- I have a feeling it will take quite a long time to make the  $$ on Real Estate.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New Nicklaus Signature Course
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2002, 01:04:28 PM »
Although that new course at the Village of Kohler on the old Pinehurst Farms is only 60 miles from my home, I haven't been there during construction to check it out.  I saw some plans in that County's land planners office, however.  It looks like a "second bite of the apple" concept to me.  The ironically named Pinehurst Farms was previously a world famous Angus breeding facility, and the patriarch of that family passed away.  The offspring were in a quandry of what to do.  I saw the farm breeding facility just prior to the golf real estate plans being implimented.  It had a series of breeding barns as nice as most large mansion tudor style homes.  There were many on site assets to capitalize on, including the barns and the same river that snakes through BWR.  In fact, part of the new course is only a long driver distance away from the 2-3-4 hole corridor of the Meadows course at BWR, across HWY 28.

Darned if I know whether this is an overbuilt situation.  It is only 45 minutes north of Milwaukee, and so residents could commute and golfers can easily drive there from the city and suburbs.  But, it isn't the only new course in that area.  I imagine they'll be getting the big-bucks to play there, and that will eliminate most of the normal golfing public from that region, since there are plenty of $25-50 courses available of some design interest and playing challenge nearby.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Jeff Goldman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New Nicklaus Signature Course
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2002, 02:18:57 PM »
A_Clay_Man,

Thanks.  The folks I played with were stunned by 14, 17 and 18 as well.  Surprisingly, they loved the Irish course, which has always struck me as contrived (it seems like all the par 3s have the same wind and the par 5s all go over a creek to the green).  

Mr. Daley:

Down the road 20 miles from BWR is The Bog, an expensive Palmer course in Saukville, which Mr. Palmer might have had trouble playing because its so narrow.  Not much of interest there IMHO.  Much better is Lawsonia (the links), which is an hour west (11/2 hours from Milwaukee and about 3 from chicago).  It may be that the 5 courses in Kohler are so far superior to anything south that its worth the drive on a regular basis, even from Chicago.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
That was one hellacious beaver.

Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New Nicklaus Signature Course
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2002, 02:47:35 PM »
What, exactly, is a "Jack Nicklaus Signature Course" as
opposed to just a course designed by Jack Nicklaus, anyways?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

Jeff Goldman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New Nicklaus Signature Course
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2002, 03:21:26 PM »
I believe that there was a posting previously that said that Nicklaus has a fee schedule that rises with the amount of his participation, and that a "Signature Course" is the most expensive with the most input by Mr. Nicklaus himself.  According to the website ("golfthebull.com"), he was there in june for 6 hours.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
That was one hellacious beaver.

Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New Nicklaus Signature Course
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2002, 04:50:54 PM »
RJ and jgoldman:

The Bog is pretty good, but The Links at Lawsonia are definately worth seeing.

Haven't heard anything about this "Bull at Pinehurst" - would
love to hear some more and to find out if it's worth the 2 1/2 hour trip from Chicago?

Also, having played both Nicklaus courses and Nicklaus "signature" courses, I can't honestly tell you which is better or different!  I understand it has to do with the fees he charges, but as far as the finished product - no discernible difference to me.


« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

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