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Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bids For Bear Trace
« Reply #25 on: January 27, 2008, 02:59:48 PM »
Quote from: Ken Fry on January 27, 2008, 09:29:54 AM
Quote from: Jeff_Brauer on January 26, 2008, 11:38:52 AM

Golf Maintenance -        $400K-$900,000

Pro Shop Management - $400-$600K

Debt on $2M/$10M -      $200K - $900K
Management Fees -       $100K
Owner Profit at 15%    - $300K


Jeff,

Just curious what's generally included in your Pro Shop Management number?

Ken

Ken,

That would include F and B and all non maintenance costs, like insurance, marketing, taxes, etc. in addition to the pro shop. I will admit I know the least about these numbers, but recall an actual number of $325K from public course we opened a decade ago. I figured the same operation would go up with inflation to $400 and threw the higher number in for high end operations.
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Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Andy Troeger

Re:Bids For Bear Trace
« Reply #26 on: January 27, 2008, 03:00:47 PM »
Quote from: Jason McNamara on January 27, 2008, 02:55:04 PM
Is there any Bear Trace Course located reasonably near a populated area?  I played Tim's Ford, and it was nice, but it would be a bit of a schlep for those not staying on the lake or attending Sewanee.

Harrison Bay is fairly close to Chattanooga I believe. That might be about it though. Cumberland Mountain is in Crossville which is a decent golf area with other courses but its no population mecca.
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Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bids For Bear Trace
« Reply #27 on: January 27, 2008, 06:59:59 PM »
Is this the golf course or did I misunderstand?

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Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bids For Bear Trace
« Reply #28 on: January 27, 2008, 07:04:23 PM »
Quote from: jeffwarne on January 27, 2008, 11:30:05 AM
if they agreed to remove the clubhose as a condition of taking on the course

Whats wrong with the clubhouse?

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Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bids For Bear Trace
« Reply #29 on: January 27, 2008, 07:52:10 PM »
Joel,

That is the Bear Trace at Tim's Ford south of Nashville.  The Clifton course is on the Tennessee River due east of Memphis. Listen for the dueling banjo's and take a right.
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Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

paul cowley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bids For Bear Trace
« Reply #30 on: January 27, 2008, 08:10:16 PM »
Quote from: Joel_Stewart on January 27, 2008, 07:04:23 PM
Quote from: jeffwarne on January 27, 2008, 11:30:05 AM
if they agreed to remove the clubhose as a condition of taking on the course

Whats wrong with the clubhouse?



The landscaping sucks.
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paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bids For Bear Trace
« Reply #31 on: January 27, 2008, 08:47:02 PM »
Quote from: Joel_Stewart on January 27, 2008, 07:04:23 PM
Quote from: jeffwarne on January 27, 2008, 11:30:05 AM
if they agreed to remove the clubhose as a condition of taking on the course

Whats wrong with the clubhouse?



Joel,
I quite like the look of that clubhouse-that wasn't my point.
My point was that's just more overhead. There are developers GIVING away courses literally for free(they've already made their money on the real estate-now they want someone else to take over the liability of owning course)  that do more rounds than this place.

The business plan just isn't going to operate cash flow positive without subsidy
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"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey
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