GolfClubAtlas.com > Golf Course Architecture
Belvedere GC, Charlevoix, MI
Tom MacWood:
--- Quote from: Jeff_Brauer on July 11, 2009, 11:53:51 PM ---Tom,
I don't think the people at Toledo CC and White Bear YC will agree with your assessment that Willie Watson designed their courses any more than MCC will agree with you that Barker designed theirs. That is just based on my limited contacts at each club.
Just what evidence do you have that Watson designed those, rather than those credited with the designs? Some more train schedules?
--- End quote ---
Are channeling TEP?
Steve Lang:
8) Toledo CC very proud of Willie Park Jr legacy there!
Jeff_Brauer:
TMac,
I haven't spoken to TePaul this week and not at all about this or the MCC threads.
As you know, I was in Toledo last week, and my cousin is a good friend of Don Kotnick (?) the pro there. I have played there and spoken with Don and some members. As Steve says, they are very proudof their Park heritage. So, with my second hand connection there, I wonder what your evidence is to "correct" the historic record there? I know something about White Bear YC, too and no one mentions Watson.
Its a legitimate question, which deserves an answer other than one of your deflection questions, which only say to me you have no real answer. You know, if you offered whatever newspaper clip you have (and as you always demand, in its entirety) I would simply be interested in seeing it.
As I told you in private email, I think your digging and finding skills are much more evolved and valuble than your interpretive skills. It seems to me that your theories always rely on a lot of fantastic coincidences to be true, while I believe that the simplest explanation usually is the most correct.
Plus, IMHO only, I am beginning to think that you have a deep seated agenda to promote lesser know gca's over the famous ones in an almost pathological way. At least, this newest Willie Watson twist, appears that way to me. First Barker, now Watson? As always, I could be wrong and if proven so, will certainly apologize to you publicly. Who knows....if you claim enough false attributions, eventually you will probably be right on one of them........Yeah, that's harsh, but there is no question that I am just a bit tired of your theories now after numerous MCC posts and private emails asking inane questions like "Are you channeling TePaul?"
I simply would like to see what your evidence is because in this day and age, statements on the net like "Willie Watson designed many courses attributed to other more famous gca's" have some real staying power. Who knows who might Google that some day, and pick up only that statement, leading future historians on some MacWoodian Goose Chase in the wrong direction? It raises an interesting question (again) of what level of background info should be required to make such posts on the internet? Certainly, a newspaper or mainstream media outlet wouldn't publish that kind of thing (or the DM essay) without some serious vetting.
Is it too much to ask that you give us some background info on your opinions? Thanks in advance.
JC Jones:
--- Quote from: Steve Lang on July 12, 2009, 12:23:22 AM --- 8) ok.. Road trip.. who wants to join ms sheila and I at Belvedere and even Dunmaglas at end of July? should be good berry picking by then
JC Jones, we have cabin at Blue Lake about 45 minutes south.. expect an email after 25 july..
--- End quote ---
Sounds good Steve, I'm up here until Aug 3.
JC Jones:
--- Quote from: Tom MacWood on July 11, 2009, 11:39:53 PM ---Mark
He is not fully appreciated. Watson designed many more courses than what is generally known. I've identified 45 designs in California, Minnesota, Illinois, Michigan, Ohio, Colorado, Arizona and New York, including some high profile courses credited to others, like Thousand Island (Raynor), Toledo (Park) and White Bear Yacht (Ross). There is still quite bit of Watson at Interlachen, and he designed Minikahda. He was heavily involved in two of the courses at Olympia Fields. Olympic-Ocean may have been his greatest accomplishment, but unfortunately it fell into the sea.
He is unique in that he was not home-grown professional in Scotland, nor even a good amateur. I'm still trying to figure out how he became a pro, I think his father was involved in clubmaking, and they came over together. To my knowledge he never competed in tournament. His design career stretched from 1898 to 1928, and that covers some pretty dramatic changes.
That is the first I've read of him being associated with the Chicago GC.
--- End quote ---
The Chicago Club he was associated with is the Chicago Club in Charlevoix, MI (a summer neighborhood association similar to the Belvedere Club).
Where are you finding this good information on Willie Watson? I'd love to try and piece together a bio of this guy as I think he has enough (prominent) work out there to have a legitimate biography.
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