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Garland Bayley

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Re: Ron Whitten's low opinion of golf architecture
« Reply #175 on: September 11, 2020, 12:18:04 AM »
... are there other reasons from maintenance, architectural, and playability standpoints why this is better for golf?   

It allows old man Duran to hit the ball farther.
 ;D
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Ken Moum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ron Whitten's low opinion of golf architecture
« Reply #176 on: September 11, 2020, 02:16:42 PM »
... are there other reasons from maintenance, architectural, and playability standpoints why this is better for golf?   

It allows old man Duran to hit the ball farther.
 ;D


As my wife said with a grin at Royal Dornoch after a driver off the deck with 70+ yards of roll gave her a 30-eagle putt, "I love a fast golf course."
Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

Lou_Duran

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Re: Ron Whitten's low opinion of golf architecture
« Reply #177 on: September 11, 2020, 02:33:43 PM »
I knew there is a good reason why I am a proponent of F & F.  Unfortunately, among club golfers, women included, I think I am in a small minority.


Ron Whitten has been a strong, longtime advocate for cutting way down on water.  His "conditioning" definition is mostly about how firm and fast the fairways play, and how firm and fast the greens are while still holding good shots.


Years ago I visited a Top 100 course in the Midwest where the maintenance workers donned custom made Tee shirts printed with "Think Firm and Fast" on the back.  The course, unfortunately, played soft and according to one of the workers, the area had not received much rainfall for a couple of weeks.  I asked the superintendent about the shirts and he noted that the club was trying to educate the membership and find a balance.  I visited some time later and the course remained lush and soft, probably just the way the members liked it.


I think that if Ron was successful in his quest to firm up the playing grounds that this would create the opportunity to be more innovative on the architectural side.  Perhaps architects would open up the entries more and create internal contouring that would sometimes encourage play to the peripheries of the green complexes, using the ground to feed the ball toward the hole.  And maybe there would be more focus on what's behind the greens so there wouldn't be such a high premium repeatedly on keeping the ball short of the hole.   



 

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +0/-1
Re: Ron Whitten's low opinion of golf architecture
« Reply #178 on: September 11, 2020, 04:11:15 PM »

I think that if Ron was successful in his quest to firm up the playing grounds that this would create the opportunity to be more innovative on the architectural side.  Perhaps architects would open up the entries more and create internal contouring that would sometimes encourage play to the peripheries of the green complexes, using the ground to feed the ball toward the hole.  And maybe there would be more focus on what's behind the greens so there wouldn't be such a high premium repeatedly on keeping the ball short of the hole.   


Some of us have been doing that for years, just in case a better approach to maintenance ever catches on.

Don Mahaffey

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ron Whitten's low opinion of golf architecture
« Reply #179 on: September 12, 2020, 07:09:18 PM »
I think that if Ron was successful in his quest to firm up the playing grounds that this would create the opportunity to be more innovative on the architectural side.  Perhaps architects would open up the entries more and create internal contouring that would sometimes encourage play to the peripheries of the green complexes, using the ground to feed the ball toward the hole.  And maybe there would be more focus on what's behind the greens so there wouldn't be such a high premium repeatedly on keeping the ball short of the hole.   


I once spent a lot of time at a course that comes very close to that description. Of course Ron saw it and wrote some very nice things about it, so maybe we had something close to what he was looking for.

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