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ANTHONYPIOPPI

Re:1934 Connecticut Aerials
« Reply #50 on: December 12, 2007, 10:17:03 PM »
Jim:

Wonderful find, now I can update the list. Please relay all our thanks to Ms. Doris Finch Watson.

I can't find who designed it, can any of our talented GCA participants surmise from the aerial whose it may be?

Anthony


ANTHONYPIOPPI

Re:1934 Connecticut Aerials
« Reply #51 on: December 12, 2007, 10:39:22 PM »
From the July 15, 1928 New York Times under the headline

COUNTRY CLUB TO OPEN FOR WOMEN IN AUGUST

"A new country club for women will be opened formally early next month when the Westchester Women's Golf and Tenis club will be ready for social functions. The eighteen-hole golf course and tennis course of the club, however, will not be completed by then

The club is situated in Banksvile, N.Y. between Greenwich and Bedford, and old Colonian farmhouse having been remodelled for use as a temporary clubhouse.

Devereaux Emmet has been the architect of the golf course, several holes of which have been arragned to permit varied methods of play. Provisions have been made for horseback riding as well as tennis. Arrangement will be made later for Winter sports."

After listing the club officers and some prominent members, the last paragraph reads, "Although the administration and membership of the club will be limited to women, guest privileges are to be extended to men."



Adam Sherer

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Re:1934 Connecticut Aerials
« Reply #52 on: December 17, 2007, 06:24:17 PM »
Is there anything covering Bonnie Briar CC, which is across the street from Winged Foot in Mamaroneck, NY?
« Last Edit: December 17, 2007, 06:24:40 PM by Adam_Sherer »
"Spem successus alit"
 (success nourishes hope)
 
         - Ross clan motto

Colin Sheehan

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Re: 1934 Connecticut Aerials
« Reply #53 on: October 30, 2020, 07:41:15 AM »
Anthony,
Thank you for compiling that list. I had never checked out the estate courses until relatively recently. Nor had I seen Westchester Women's and Hob Nob Hill! All very interesting.
 


I didn't see any course on the still for the Ethel Walker course. Am I missing it?


And I agree it would be interesting to find out more about the 18 hole course across the street from Blind Brook.


Thanks,
Colin

Jeff Loh

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Re: 1934 Connecticut Aerials
« Reply #54 on: October 30, 2020, 02:01:01 PM »
Colin
Played there as a kid. Think it was called Port Chester Country Club. Don't remember much.
Except that it was a hella of lot better than the current "Doral."

Colin Sheehan

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Re: 1934 Connecticut Aerials
« Reply #55 on: October 30, 2020, 02:57:27 PM »
Jeff,
Thanks for that info. Do you remember the architect? Did it remain open like that?
-Colin

Jim_Kennedy

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Re: 1934 Connecticut Aerials
« Reply #56 on: October 30, 2020, 09:46:48 PM »
Jeff,
Might have been named something other than PCCC. That course was sold in the late twenties by its members for a school/ residential development. The members of PCCC then bought land and built the Tamarack CC.
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Colin Sheehan

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Re: 1934 Connecticut Aerials
« Reply #57 on: October 30, 2020, 10:02:03 PM »
I mis-read Anthony's first post. He had four **** for both courses above and below Blind Brook. Looks like the course across the street is Kings Ridge
Kings Ridge Country Club, Thomas Winton, 04039



And for the course to Blind Brook's south, I cross-referenced the courses from New York in the Estate Courses thread, and it might be one of these three:

De Zerega Private Course -- Unknown
White Reed Private Course (Purchase)
Stern Private Course -- Bendelow
« Last Edit: October 31, 2020, 09:15:37 AM by Colin Sheehan »

Jim_Kennedy

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Re: 1934 Connecticut Aerials
« Reply #58 on: October 30, 2020, 11:02:21 PM »
Here is Whitelaw Reid's Ophir Farm estate, to the west of Blind Brook, and it's part of Manhattanville College today. I believe you can see what looks like a hole or two on the grounds. 
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Paul Rudovsky

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Re: 1934 Connecticut Aerials
« Reply #59 on: October 31, 2020, 02:41:32 AM »
I lived about a mile from Blind Brook from about 1988 to 1995 (just west of Pepsi's current HQ).  Also spent time in that area in the 1970's.   Here are some facts:


1.  Pepsi moved from Park Ave in Manhattan in about 1973ish.  The property before was a Polo Club.
2.  If you look at the land south of Blind Brook and north of The Hutchinson River Parkway, I would bet lots of $$ that the land with the smaller homes today comprised the golf course (as I recall from the 1980's all of these homes are about the same size and appear to be of about the same age.  On the western part of the land (just south of Pepsi) the land is occupied by estates of about 3-5+ acres and the homes are all older.  No way was that land part of the golf course (I have not looked at the arial photos yet...which photo numbers show that course best??).
3.  I have a good friend who are up about 2 miles away (he is about 73 years old now) and will ask him what he recalls
4.  I played the course that was the predecessor to Doral in 1971...is was 18 holes and not really worthy of note.  It became "Arrowwood" or "Doral" in the mid 1970's or 1980's I think...was bought by the Kaskel's (DORis and ALfred) who had built DORAL in Miami in the late 1950's or so.  The Kaskel's joined Quaker Ridge in about '78-'80 (I joined in '75) and I knew their son Howard a little bit...I can try to find out if he is still around and at QR...my guess is that he would be about 70-72 years old.  That son was a very good player and QR club champ at least once in the early 1980's.  I forget if Arrowwood preceded Doral or vice versa but the change from 18 to 9 was to built condos on the land as well.  One of two things...either it was changed from 18 holes to 9+ real estate as Arrowwood and then purchased later by the Kaskel's...or the Kaskel's purchased the 18 hole course and and built it as Arrowwood and changed the name to DORAL later.  The New York Times on 11/9/1986 had an article about the Kaskel's buying Arrowwood but it is not readable without sending the NYT a few bucks (which I absolutely refuse to do , so you can guess who I voted for 😆).  Anyone else interested in sending a few bucks to that former newspaper?
5.  I am not a real estate lawyer or specialist but I have a strong sense that the deed for the land that was occupied by the 6 hole course south of BB (and the the deeds for each of the smaller houses that sit there and probably built in the 60's or so) would say who owned the land through history (whether that "who" was a person, or a corporation like a club).  And that deed I think would be in the public record and findable in gov't files in Harrison, NY or Purchase, NY (Purchase is part of Harrison).


I no longer live near there but will ask old friends.


6.  The Manhattanville Campus (next to Old Oaks) was where the movie "Goodbye Columbus" was filmed in the late 1960's


Colin Sheehan

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Re: 1934 Connecticut Aerials
« Reply #60 on: October 31, 2020, 09:24:11 AM »
I updated my post so the text wasn't miniscule.


Here they are

De Zerega Private Course -- Unknown
Whitelaw Reed Private Course (Purchase)
Stern Private Course -- Bendelow

But Based on Jim's post we can rule out the Whitelaw Reed estate.

Paul,
I just emailed you an image of the estate.
It's a nice little six hole course.

Jeff Loh

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Re: 1934 Connecticut Aerials
« Reply #61 on: October 31, 2020, 09:27:36 AM »
Jim
Thanks for the info! Sounds about right.
I do have an old matchbook from Tamarack that has a Port Chester (not Greenwich) address on it so that makes sense. Wonder how/when Greenwich annexed it... ;D


Paul
Thanks for info. Might as well send that $$$ to the NY Post. Fine investigative journalism there...

Paul Rudovsky

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Re: 1934 Connecticut Aerials
« Reply #62 on: November 02, 2020, 12:42:00 PM »
This relates to the course seen just south of Blind Brook as well as the origins of Doral/Arrowwood...both in Purchase, NY next to the NY/CT state line.


1.  go to:  https://www.ebay.com/itm/1910-G-W-BROMLEY-WESTCHESTER-NEW-YORK-PORT-CHESTER-COUNTRY-CLUB-ATLAS-MAP-/232255046799


now look at:1.   estates on right hand edge…in middle is “Bush Estate”…bet lots of $$ the Walker Cup came from that plot of land
2.  then look further up on the right edge…Portchester CC (lessee), John Lyons (owner)…and Lyon’s estate sits next to Buch estate and is bigger 😆


My bet is that Porchester CC was founded around 1895-1905 and was located as marked here (which is much closer to LI Sound than Blind Brook and Doral), and later moved up to the Doral spot ( I am 75% sure the course I played in 1970 or ’71 was Portchester CC)…which was not a private club then.  And Kaskel’s bought it and converted to 9 holes in ’86. NOTE CORRECTION...heard from Kaskel's son that they purchased what was called Arrowwood in 1986 and it had been already been changed to 9 holes + condo's...so the change from 18 holes happened between 1970 and 1986.  My other sources do not recall it from its 18 hole days


And I also learned from friend who is a retired real estate attorney that deeds general list the succession of prior ownership (and lessees) so some of these old NLE courses can be determined by looking at deeds in local offices
« Last Edit: November 03, 2020, 12:55:22 AM by Paul Rudovsky »

ANTHONYPIOPPI

Re: 1934 Connecticut Aerials
« Reply #63 on: November 02, 2020, 03:03:17 PM »
Here is how you get to the aerials now


https://connecticut.maps.arcgis.com/apps/View/index.html?appid=044e8e6266aa44dc8ccc9b6e2eecacb4&extent=-74.8197,40.6374,-70.2054,42.4665


Click "I accept."


On the top left corner there looks to be an icon of three floating squares. Click on that. You'll see an index pop up on right, click on the year you want, have at it.


Peace.


Anthony

V. Kmetz

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Re: 1934 Connecticut Aerials
« Reply #64 on: November 03, 2020, 01:20:04 PM »
Hi Paul (and all),


Perhaps I can clean up some of your inquiries.


1. The course NORTH of Blind Brook, across Anderson Hill Road, which is now Doral-Arrowood dates to the 1930s, was once 18 holes, had a brief experimentation with "lighted night golf," and... as best as I can tell, it has been 9 holes since between the period from the 1954 aerials to the 1960 aerials. It was called:

  • Green Valley
  • King's Ridge
then...
  • Purchase CC (it was Purchase from at least 1963 until I "believe" the Doral conversion ca. 1980)...the similar names may have led you to "75%" believe that this was a spawn of Portchester, which I do not believe is true.
2. The Portchester CC you have referenced in this thread was indeed much closer to downtown PC center, in what is now a long-gentrified neighborhood a bit north of PCHS and between Lyon and Crawford Parks.  I have seen a property map of this (but cannot retrieve now).  From all cursory investiagtions, though it may have been an old course dating back to the 00ughts, it seems to have been an antique, small course that was short-lived past the 20s.  I'm not aware of that club seeding any other in the area.


3.  The course/golf holes you have identified, which appear immediately south of Blind Brook, between it and the Hutch, I have always chalked up to an private estate course, with nothing further available to this point.


OTHER:
While scenes from Goodbye Columbus may have also been shot down the street at the Whitelaw Reid/Manhattanville campus, the Old Oaks clubhouse itself (most notably the pool) was indeed featured in the movie.  Confusion on that may stem from two different oligarchs named "Re(id)"... Whitelaw ReId's (older) estate is now Manhattanvile.... Old Oak's ReEd is William A. Reed, founder of a NY investment firm.  His estate mansion, originally called Hillcrest and built in 1890 is the clubhouse of Old Oaks.
"The tee shot must first be hit straight and long between a vast bunker on the left which whispers 'slice' in the player's ear, and a wilderness on the right which induces a hurried hook." -

Bret Lawrence

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Re: 1934 Connecticut Aerials
« Reply #65 on: November 04, 2020, 08:11:13 AM »
There are 1925-1926 aerials available from Westchester County.  The courses to the north and south of Blind Brook were not in the ground as of 1925-1926.  You can see the old Port Chester Country Club if you click on the dot next to today’s Port Chester High School. You can also see the old Whippoorwill course in this collection among many others.


Here’s a link.  Just click on the box for 1925-1926 and select a dot closest to the location you are trying to view.  When the box pops up, click on: “More Info” and the image will appear.


https://wcgis.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=5f4e1a4ac86649f9a644ae1288416ee9






Colin Sheehan

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Re: 1934 Connecticut Aerials
« Reply #66 on: November 04, 2020, 09:47:51 AM »
Bret,
Thank you for the link. Is there a similar link for Nassau and Suffolk counties?




Regarding courses in the mid-20s collection.


Is that Knollwood in the process of being redesigned?


Does anyone know what the existing design attribution for Knollwood and Sunningdale in those images?


Thanks,
Colin




And what would be the design attribution to Sunningdale in that image?

Bret Lawrence

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Re: 1934 Connecticut Aerials
« Reply #67 on: November 04, 2020, 10:04:08 AM »
https://lrv.nassaucountyny.gov/map/


https://gis3.suffolkcountyny.gov/gisviewer/


Here are the Nassau and Suffolk county aerial viewers. 


For Nassau you need to click on the Layers tab in the upper right hand corner.  When the box drops down, click on the 1926 aerial layer to the right of the screen.


For Suffolk County you will need to click on the icon that looks like 4 boxes in the upper right hand corner.  From there you can select the year.  This viewer only goes back to 1947, but Suffolk County does have records of aerials from 1929/1930.  Here is a link to that page as well. Scroll half way down the page to find this index map.


https://www.suffolkcountyny.gov/Departments/Economic-Development-and-Planning/Planning-and-Environment/Cartography-and-GIS#historic








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