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Wayne_Kozun

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT - Callaway to buy rest of Top Golf?
« Reply #25 on: October 29, 2020, 06:11:07 PM »
We don't have TopGolf in Canada yet, but I have been when visiting Dallas.  I enjoyed it as did my non-golfing daughter and niece. I could see going on an occasional basis if I had one nearby.

John Crowley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT - Callaway to buy rest of Top Golf?
« Reply #26 on: October 29, 2020, 09:19:09 PM »
I am going to suggest that my club’s membership director first ask prospective members if all they know about the game of golf is from their Top Golf experience before considering giving them an application.

Mike Bodo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT - Callaway to buy rest of Top Golf?
« Reply #27 on: October 30, 2020, 08:04:55 AM »
I am going to suggest that my club’s membership director first ask prospective members if all they know about the game of golf is from their Top Golf experience before considering giving them an application.
Not to come off discriminating, but that's not a far-fetched idea. Great, so you go to a Top Golf to learn to hit the golf ball and decide after a period of time you want to graduate to playing real golf without any "real golf" experience. Suppose you're making a good enough yearly income to afford membership at a decent private club or any private club, for that matter. Can the club deny you a golf membership based on lack of experience playing actual course golf? Being a private club, they can do anything within reason. Thus, the answer would be "yes." Should they? I'd argue, yes! The last thing you want at a private club are members with little to no understanding of the rules of golf, proper course etiquette and club rules, i.e. dress codes, do's and don'ts, etc. The latter can learned through a handbook, but understanding the rules of the game and what's proper to do on a golf course and what isn't can only be gained through experience playing. A private club is not the place for that, unless you're a junior member playing with an adult who can teach and educate you on proper course etiquette and the rules of the game. Most juniors learn these things through group and or private lessons at the club. Is Top Golf going to start teaching this to people who frequent their facilities on regular basis before they move on to real golf? I highly doubt it. What scares me, then, is that you'll have this certain segment of golfers coming to public and private courses with little to no understanding of the game that are going to piss proper golfers and members off, not to mention course operators between cart and course abuse.


That said, I don't think you're going to see many Top Golf graduates first experience playing actual course golf taking place at private clubs and courses. I suspect the vast majority will learn the game at public courses and from there determine if private club membership is for them. Of course, there may be exceptions and it will be interesting to see how individual private clubs handle that. But I'm all in favor of denying membership based on lack of actual golf experience.
"90% of all putts left short are missed." - Yogi Berra

Jim Sullivan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT - Callaway to buy rest of Top Golf?
« Reply #28 on: October 30, 2020, 09:26:59 AM »
I suspect the converts are primarily linked with established golfers.


I am married with four children and only my youngest son has the faintest interest in golf. If we spent a couple sessions at TopGolf, I think it's very likely I'd get some family members out to my course. Hooking them from there would be the trick, but I think their link to me would be instrumental.

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT - Callaway to buy rest of Top Golf?
« Reply #29 on: October 30, 2020, 09:49:27 AM »
I am going to suggest that my club’s membership director first ask prospective members if all they know about the game of golf is from their Top Golf experience before considering giving them an application.
Not to come off discriminating, but that's not a far-fetched idea. Great, so you go to a Top Golf to learn to hit the golf ball and decide after a period of time you want to graduate to playing real golf without any "real golf" experience. Suppose you're making a good enough yearly income to afford membership at a decent private club or any private club, for that matter. Can the club deny you a golf membership based on lack of experience playing actual course golf? Being a private club, they can do anything within reason. Thus, the answer would be "yes." Should they? I'd argue, yes! The last thing you want at a private club are members with little to no understanding of the rules of golf, proper course etiquette and club rules, i.e. dress codes, do's and don'ts, etc. The latter can learned through a handbook, but understanding the rules of the game and what's proper to do on a golf course and what isn't can only be gained through experience playing. A private club is not the place for that, unless you're a junior member playing with an adult who can teach and educate you on proper course etiquette and the rules of the game. Most juniors learn these things through group and or private lessons at the club. Is Top Golf going to start teaching this to people who frequent their facilities on regular basis before they move on to real golf? I highly doubt it. What scares me, then, is that you'll have this certain segment of golfers coming to public and private courses with little to no understanding of the game that are going to piss proper golfers and members off, not to mention course operators between cart and course abuse.


That said, I don't think you're going to see many Top Golf graduates first experience playing actual course golf taking place at private clubs and courses. I suspect the vast majority will learn the game at public courses and from there determine if private club membership is for them. Of course, there may be exceptions and it will be interesting to see how individual private clubs handle that. But I'm all in favor of denying membership based on lack of actual golf experience.


"a private club is not the place for that"


I'd like to think a private club would only deny membership based on a lack of character, sour personality,insidious or illegal business dealings, reputation etc., or even a lack relatonships with current members...
but not because an otherwise good candidate had only "Top Golf" or limited real golf experience.


It's WAAY easier to teach a (vetted as above)new/non golfer ettiquette and rules of the game than it is to break a long time poor behaver or simply oblivious golfer of bad habits.


I'd say a private club is EXACTLY the place to teach that, and membership could be conditional of a training course which any reasonable candidate would be most appreciative of.
Why not mold an otherwise great candidate into the ideal member, than accept a long time golfer who is uninterested in changing or oblivious to their behavior?
I realize it is not an either/or choice as a club can also deny membership to the poor behaver as well.

and I often see unfixed ballmarks,unraked bunkers and other poor/boorish behavior at the most exclusive of old and new line clubs, from long time silver spooners who grew up in a jr. program at the club.


Give me the good guy/gal novice EVERY time to mold from scratch, especially if the pro was part of the vetting process, and later in the training-which any new golfer would appreciate.






« Last Edit: October 30, 2020, 10:11:47 AM by jeffwarne »
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Bruce Katona

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT - Callaway to buy rest of Top Golf?
« Reply #30 on: October 30, 2020, 09:52:04 AM »
A good bar with a side of golf (hopefully good) - not to toss stones but isn't that what JK on occasion espouses ?


I'm pretty comfortable in saying Slapper has the demographics of Top Golf nailed down and has a fair idea of the spillover from the driving range/bar to actual play.


Are the folks who actually invest money in the business of golf in the faint hopes of obtaining a positive return on their capital investment going to depend on the PGA & USGA to "Grow the Game"?  That's like re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic in the hopes of staying dry.

Mike Bodo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT - Callaway to buy rest of Top Golf?
« Reply #31 on: October 30, 2020, 10:28:17 AM »
I'd say a private club is EXACTLY the place to teach that, and membership could be conditional of a training course which any reasonable candidate would be most appreciative of.
Why not mold an otherwise great candidate into the ideal member, than accept a long time golfer who is uninterested in changing or oblivious to their behavior?
I realize it is not an either/or choice as a club can also deny membership to the poor behaver as well.

and I often see unfixed ballmarks,unraked bunkers and other poor/boorish behavior at the most exclusive of old and new line clubs, from long time silver spooners who grew up in a jr. program at the club.


Give me the good guy/gal novice EVERY time to mold from scratch, especially if the pro was part of the vetting process, and later in the training-which any new golfer would appreciate.
Jeff, great counter-argument and you raise some excellent points! All in all I think Topgolf has been great for the games exposure. In addition to introducing newbies to course golf, I suspect TG has had a hand in bringing more people to watching professional golf tournaments, as ratings for the PGA Tour are higher now than they have in years. Some people attribute that to COVID-19 and the dearth of sports on TV, but we will see if that pattern persists next year when sports (God willing) resume more of a normal season. As more Topgolf facilities spring up it will be interesting to see its long-term impact on the game in the years and decades to come. I, for one, see it as a positive, as any new converts to the game by way of Topgolf is better than none.
"90% of all putts left short are missed." - Yogi Berra

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT - Callaway to buy rest of Top Golf?
« Reply #32 on: October 30, 2020, 10:42:26 AM »
I'd say a private club is EXACTLY the place to teach that, and membership could be conditional of a training course which any reasonable candidate would be most appreciative of.
Why not mold an otherwise great candidate into the ideal member, than accept a long time golfer who is uninterested in changing or oblivious to their behavior?
I realize it is not an either/or choice as a club can also deny membership to the poor behaver as well.

and I often see unfixed ballmarks,unraked bunkers and other poor/boorish behavior at the most exclusive of old and new line clubs, from long time silver spooners who grew up in a jr. program at the club.


Give me the good guy/gal novice EVERY time to mold from scratch, especially if the pro was part of the vetting process, and later in the training-which any new golfer would appreciate.
Jeff, great counter-argument and you raise some excellent points! All in all I think Topgolf has been great for the games exposure. In addition to introducing newbies to course golf, I suspect TG has had a hand in bringing more people to watching professional golf tournaments, as ratings for the PGA Tour are higher now than they have in years. Some people attribute that to COVID-19 and the dearth of sports on TV, but we will see if that pattern persists next year when sports (God willing) resume more of a normal season. As more Topgolf facilities spring up it will be interesting to see its long-term impact on the game in the years and decades to come. I, for one, see it as a positive, as any new converts to the game by way of Topgolf is better than none.


Thanks


I think TV Golf gota boost when it was the only game in town and gained a few converts-it was also the least "weird" without a shortened/bubble/cutout fan experience, as each event is a separate deal.


Second,many new people tried golf in the pandemic as it was one of the few activities open-esp early. So some took up the game and some watched on TV.


Third-Top Golf is a bar but golf could benefit some as surely some will want to  try the real thing after success at Top Golf.
I for one like to occasionally drink and I like to play golf. I also like to do both simultaneously.
I really haven't enjoyed Top Golf that much in my 2 experiences and would far prefer bowling.
It's just too diffferent than regular golf(maybe Callaway can address that)-I certainly would rather go to a real driving range with a bar component.
But I do think it can have a positive effect in the growth of golf.
I don't pay a lot of attention to public companies use of other people's money.
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Mike Bodo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT - Callaway to buy rest of Top Golf?
« Reply #33 on: October 30, 2020, 11:29:55 AM »
Third-Top Golf is a bar but golf could benefit some as surely some will want to  try the real thing after success at Top Golf.
I for one like to occasionally drink and I like to play golf. I also like to do both simultaneously.
I'm a lot like you in this regard. In fact, the self-described slogan at the club I was a member at prior to the one I belong to now went something like this, "We're a drinking club with a golfing problem." LOL! The club I belong to now isn't nearly as much fun from a social perspective, but I'm hoping to change that narrative next year. Cheers!  ;)
"90% of all putts left short are missed." - Yogi Berra

Alex Miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT - Callaway to buy rest of Top Golf?
« Reply #34 on: October 30, 2020, 12:19:59 PM »
I suspect the converts are primarily linked with established golfers.


I am married with four children and only my youngest son has the faintest interest in golf. If we spent a couple sessions at TopGolf, I think it's very likely I'd get some family members out to my course. Hooking them from there would be the trick, but I think their link to me would be instrumental.


I'm a golfer with a lot of non-golfer friends (though I've seen interest continue to pick up and have seen a few continue to fall in love with the game). There are some of these non-golfers who have gone to Top Golf and are generally more interested in the experience of having a night out with friends than golf itself, but their reactions to that experience have been very positive.


If it were a normal year and there was a Top Golf in my city, it's absolutely where I'd be looking to have a birthday party. The link to established golfers is a great point, and I hope that this network effect is useful. Probably like a lot of folks here, I'd like to encourage people new to the game to try it and figure out a path for them to enjoy it. If Top Golf can be a new path for that to happen I will embrace it, as golf has given me so much I'd love to share it with others.

Jim Sherma

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT - Callaway to buy rest of Top Golf?
« Reply #35 on: October 30, 2020, 01:03:54 PM »
Managing a retail/F&B operation is significantly different than a manufacturing/sales/marketing operation. M&A integration for Callaway will likely not be that easy unless they view it as a hands off capital injection with guaranteed distribution and potentially some overhead synergies being the main boost for the mother company.

Dave Doxey

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT - Callaway to buy rest of Top Golf?
« Reply #36 on: October 31, 2020, 10:54:52 AM »

Its bowling, with better looking participants


With that said, there's nothing wrong with TopGolf. I'm glad people enjoy it.

About the same score, with fewer lost balls.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2020, 10:57:00 AM by Dave Doxey »

David_Tepper

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Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT - Callaway to buy rest of Top Golf?
« Reply #38 on: November 03, 2020, 11:09:53 PM »
 8)  We've gone to Top Golf a couple of times to simply swing a club or two when its been wet weather and have no desire for a wet slog.  There's consequence for every swing, and no cheating...


Last time, next to us were a gaggle of girls and a mother chaperone, it was definitely a birthday party and they were having a blast.  On the other side of us were a family with mom & dad and a pre-teen aged son learning to swing a club.  Mom was doing the coaching, they were enjoying the outing, and essentially having a family picnic, no muss, fuss, or cleanup.   


bottom line, seems like Top Golf is filling a niche, any future golfers are a positive

Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

Mike Bodo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT - Callaway to buy rest of Top Golf?
« Reply #39 on: November 04, 2020, 07:21:31 AM »
Bottom line, seems like Top Golf is filling a niche, any future golfers are a positive
+1
"90% of all putts left short are missed." - Yogi Berra

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