News:

This discussion group is best enjoyed using Google Chrome, Firefox or Safari.


Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Cobb's Creek "Restoreable"
« Reply #100 on: November 07, 2007, 08:43:54 PM »
I can make it that weekend as well.  And if Mark cannot, I can show you the old 12th and 17th tees.  I went out there today for a quick round in the afternoon and was able to find both, but each took some work.  I am so excited about a restoration.... Cobb's would immediately become one of the best public courses in the area if brought back to the 30's version, IMO.  Heck, I'll go on record right here and now and state that it could be the best in the area.
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Mike_Cirba

Re:Cobb's Creek "Restoreable"
« Reply #101 on: November 07, 2007, 08:49:30 PM »
I can make it that weekend as well.  And if Mark cannot, I can show you the old 12th and 17th tees.  I went out there today for a quick round in the afternoon and was able to find both, but each took some work.  I am so excited about a restoration.... Cobb's would immediately become one of the best public courses in the area if brought back to the 30's version, IMO.  Heck, I'll go on record right here and now and state that it could be the best in the area.

Joe,

It must have been difficult not to see the holes in their original context and layout on your round today.

I know I'll never look at the course in the same way again, after learning what we have these past few weeks.

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Cobb's Creek "Restoreable"
« Reply #102 on: November 07, 2007, 09:11:57 PM »
Mike, it was just awesome today.  Simply awesome.  I had the course pretty much to myself.  I teed off at 1 PM and the sunshine was just enough to keep it comfortable.  After teeing off on six I tried to find the stone steps that Mark mentioned for the old 12th, but I could not locate them.  So I trudged along thinking I'll get it figured out when arriving at the 14th tee.  But after teeing off the 14th I looked all friggin' over near that tee for a path down to a tee box to the current 6th green, but to no avail.  I started to feel like I had been given the wrong date to a party.  But after playing the 15th, I started to look again for the mysterious tee as I headed to the 16th.  I looked near the back of the 14th tee, but again did not see anything that looked promising.  So I started walking to the current 16th tee and decided, what the heck, let's dive back into the woods from the side.  And, BAM (!), I had to strike gold.  I was on a flat piece of land in the woods, a bit down the hill, and the green was obscured through the trees.  Gosh, the hole looks great from there.  It even made me wonder if upon restoration if the current blue tee for the 14th couldn't be the back tee.  From there it would be probably 170 yards.  As an aside, I'll post a pic of what is the view of the old 9th hole (par 4 to the current 7th green) which appears to have played about 360 yards according to my rangefinder.  

The hole that really looks like a showstopper would be the 17th.  I'm pretty sure I found the original tee here (not too far at all from the current 16th green) and gahd almighty this would be a healthy hole.  If a restoration is done, I would hope they keep the current tees in place, or build new ones down the hill from the 'old tee' so the hole for the bogey golfer is manageable.  
« Last Edit: November 07, 2007, 09:28:01 PM by Joe Bausch »
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Mike_Cirba

Re:Cobb's Creek "Restoreable"
« Reply #103 on: November 07, 2007, 09:19:17 PM »
Joe,

Your excitement is absolutely palpable in your writing.  There's just so much great history here to unearth.  

This is really fun stuff, isn't it?   ;D

Geoffrey_Walsh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Cobb's Creek "Restoreable"
« Reply #104 on: November 07, 2007, 10:02:23 PM »
I'll admit it.  I'm getting goosebumps just reading Joe's description of the 17th.

James Bennett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Cobb's Creek "Restoreable"
« Reply #105 on: November 08, 2007, 07:27:48 AM »
To the Philadelphians

great thread, I have enjoyed watching 'the search' as it has gone on.  I don't know Cobb's Creek, but for those wishing to compare par 3's at Merion East with Cobbs Creek (discussed earlier) this photo of Merion East #17 shows the elevation change quite well.

I do hope Bill and others were not offended by the camera.  If any of you are, look away now!

From the left of Merion East #17, looking back at #17 tee above the quarry.  To the left is the front #18 tee, and the climb back up to #18 fairway (being irrigated - a rare site at Merion East).



James B
« Last Edit: November 08, 2007, 07:29:35 AM by James Bennett »
Bob; its impossible to explain some of the clutter that gets recalled from the attic between my ears. .  (SL Solow)

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Cobb's Creek "Restoreable"
« Reply #106 on: November 08, 2007, 08:16:21 AM »
Here is a pic that shows how old #9 at Cobb's might look like (if only Photoshop had a 'tree removal' button!), which is from current tee #14 to the 7th green:



My rangefinder suggests it would be about 360 yards long, maybe 390 from the back tees.
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Mike_Cirba

Re:Cobb's Creek "Restoreable"
« Reply #107 on: November 08, 2007, 08:23:58 AM »
James,

Thanks for posting.   I think the elevation change at Cobbs for 17 is a bit higher than from the top of the quarry at Merion, but it's instructive.

Joe,

Awesome.  Reminds me a bit of 7 down the street, only from an elevated tee.   Of course, perhaps I'm getting carried away.   ;)

MSusko

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Cobb's Creek "Restoreable"
« Reply #108 on: November 08, 2007, 08:24:59 AM »
All,

The first weekend in Dec works well for me as well.  Let me know what time you guys are thinking.  We can take a look at the course and then play (weather permitting).  

And now, as promised, a story from the past.

According to several old time caddie's boxer Joe Lewis and Hall of Famer Charlie Sifford would play some big money matches here.  Joe Lewis was an excellent golfer and would never turn down a game.  He would also never loose except to Sifford.  When I asked why he could never beat Charlie the caddie's told me that he could have beat him no problem.  Seems he used to throw the match to help fund Siffords efforts to play professionaly.  Charlie had to much pride to just take money.  Lewis, who wanted to help Sifford, used golf to help Charlie make on the pro tour.

Mark

Mike_Cirba

Re:Cobb's Creek "Restoreable"
« Reply #109 on: November 08, 2007, 08:37:35 AM »
Mark,

That's awesome...I'd propose we meet at around 10am to give us plenty of daylight, but let's check weather and such as we get closer.

What a great story!   Thanks for sharing...

It's sort of sad to know that Joe Louis actually ended up pretty penniless, as he evidently was an easy mark for shysters as his heart was bigger than his punch.  

Any word yet from your former co-worker on the source of that newspaper account?  

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Cobb's Creek "Restoreable"
« Reply #110 on: November 08, 2007, 09:33:31 AM »
While standing between the current 7th and 8th fairways yesterday, it was obvious Cobb's looked pretty darn good on this late fall afternoon.  So I took out the old cam and fired off 11 shots and pasted them together for a 360° panorama that I converted to a Quicktime VR movie.   Your QuickTime (and web plugin) needs to be able to handle H264 compressed movies, and a broadband connection is strongly recommended as the file is large (~10 MB).  You can see some holes and many greens (10, 11, 12, and 13).  Enjoy!

http://darwin.chem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/CC_panorama.mov
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Mike_Cirba

Re:Cobb's Creek "Restoreable"
« Reply #111 on: November 08, 2007, 08:33:39 PM »
Joe,

That's really impressive.   Thanks for sharing.

The course looks to be in pretty fine condition...especially considering the situation they're operating under.   Or am I just impressed with your photography?  

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Cobb's Creek "Restoreable"
« Reply #112 on: November 08, 2007, 08:51:08 PM »
Joe,

That's really impressive.   Thanks for sharing.

The course looks to be in pretty fine condition...especially considering the situation they're operating under.   Or am I just impressed with your photography?  

Mike, I think w/o an irrigation system Cobb's is best in the spring and the fall.  We've had enough rain lately to really brighten it up.  The greens yesterday were wonderful.  They putted true, not super fast, but maybe a 9 or 10 on the meter.

I really hope others reading this thread have the same passion you and I have (and Wayne, Kyle, SteveS, GW, and others that perhaps haven't spoken up yet) about getting Cobb's into a first rate/world class (?) state.  This is starting to remind me of the chatter surrounding the restoration at Ross' Jeffersonville.  And I love Jeffersonville.  But Jeffersonville is no Cobb's.  The terrain at Cobb's is so much better.

Kyle and I have discussed a Public Course Death Match, hole by hole, of Cobb's after restoration versus Bethpage Black.  Stay tuned!  I think you might be surprised...
« Last Edit: November 08, 2007, 08:52:26 PM by Joe Bausch »
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Geoffrey_Walsh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Cobb's Creek "Restoreable"
« Reply #113 on: November 08, 2007, 10:11:05 PM »
We proposed to the city a few years ago what you mentioned above.  A full scale restoration to the original layout with expanded tees, new bunkers, clubhouse expansion and renovation and most importantly a state of the art irrigation system.  This would be paid for by a surcharge that would be added to the greens fees.  I think that it worked out to city residents paying a peak fee of $40 and non city residents (which make up over 80% of my play) would pay a peak fee of $65.  We presented this with plans for every step of the process and even had funding in place.  All the city had to do was sign off on it, of course they didn't citing several reasons that to me made no sense.

Joe,

Count me in the group that has such a passion for this project that the notion of being able to restore this course has literally stayed with me for almost 10 years.  After I moved to Newtown, I used to drive an hour each way to Cobb's (down Roosevelt Blvd., always a fun drive) just because its architecture inspired me.  I think Philadelphia could greatly benefit from some inspiration right now and stripping the dirt off this painting might be just what the doctor ordered.

My main concern is mapping out how we actually get something DONE in this city.  Nutter's election was a step in the right direction but to say this project is a long shot might not be overstating our odds.  Others have obviously tried to do this in the past and failed.  I wonder if Mark could share any lessons learned from these past attempts.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2007, 10:16:16 PM by Geoffrey_Walsh »

Geoffrey_Walsh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Cobb's Creek "Restoreable"
« Reply #114 on: November 08, 2007, 10:21:54 PM »
This might be a little over the top but I always dreamed that a museum or at least a section of the clubhouse could be dedicated to the Philadelphia school of architects.  It would be a place where kids could see what Wilson, Flynn, Tillinghast, Crump and Thomas (and others) did and be inspired themselves.  Philadelphia really should have a place that honors their accomplishments and what better place than at a public facility open to all.  Think of it like a First Tee for GCA.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2007, 10:23:54 PM by Geoffrey_Walsh »

Willie_Dow

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Cobb's Creek "Restoreable"
« Reply #115 on: November 09, 2007, 10:08:36 AM »
Good thought, Geof !

Driving by the GAP Golf House on Croton Road I note that the place is for sale.  What a great addition to the "City of Golf" if GAP relocated itself to Cobb's.

Mike_Cirba

Re:Cobb's Creek "Restoreable"
« Reply #116 on: November 09, 2007, 10:53:04 AM »
Joe/Geoffrey,

I would mention that I've received a couple of private emails from folks wishing to be involved in helping however they can.  

Joe,

I'm not sure what a "restoration" should look like beyond trying to recapture the original routing.  I would also assume that a lot of larger specimen trees should be kept in place, but like most courses, I think you could remove every pine in sight and improve things, but that's just me.

Bunkering would be a stickier issue, because there weren't a lot of bunkers there in the first place.  

I think we're getting way ahead of ourselves, probably, but it is nice to dream.  ;)

Also, I would never compare Cobbs with Bethpage Black and I think the intent would be something completely different...a piece of living Philadelphia & golf history as one of the small handful of designs Hugh Wilson was involved in.  

The course would have both charm and difficulty, but it seems to me the purpose of BB was always to be a "Championship Course", whatever that means.  

I guess, these days, it means making it 7500 yards, par 70, and adding bunkers and changing greens on Tillinghast's work.   ::)

wsmorrison

Re:Cobb's Creek "Restoreable"
« Reply #117 on: November 09, 2007, 11:02:04 AM »
I've spoken to Mark Peterson (GAP exec director) about a golf architects/architecture project.  He is very interested in the idea.  I guess how much space they end up having will be key to what scope they can present.  In any case, the complete digitized Flynn collection is going to be given to GAP.

Geoffrey_Walsh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Cobb's Creek "Restoreable"
« Reply #118 on: November 11, 2007, 09:46:14 PM »
Wayne,

Thanks for touching base with Mark and letting us know that GAP potentially has interest in that idea.  As an aside, I have always thought that GAP and the city's public courses should have a closer relationship.  However, I do give credit to Mark for finally including the Philadelphia Publinks as an associate club so that the public players have an outlet to join GAP.

Mike/Mark/Joe,

Count me in for the first weekend in December.  Saturday would work best for me.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2007, 09:48:14 PM by Geoffrey_Walsh »

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Cobb's Creek "Restoreable"
« Reply #119 on: November 20, 2007, 04:33:26 PM »
Those interested in Cobb's and meeting w/ Mark Susko, the pro there, I'd like to tentatively suggest Saturday, December 1 at 10 AM.  This day works for Mark (but Sunday does not).  I hope this gives those following this thread plenty of time to plan to be able to make it.  Tentatively the long range weather forecast looks promising temperature wise, so some golf might be possible too.  I can see this being a very fun day and perhaps it can be capped later, for those living out on or near the Main Line, with some sustenance and golf talk at my watering hole in Haverford, Roach and O'Brien's.
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

wsmorrison

Re:Cobb's Creek "Restoreable"
« Reply #120 on: November 20, 2007, 04:58:30 PM »
I have a dinner party to go to the evening of December 1, but will come at least for the golf course discussion if everyone is OK with that.  Thanks for arranging, Joe.  Maybe just one drink at R+O  ;)

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Cobb's Creek "Restoreable"
« Reply #121 on: November 20, 2007, 05:18:38 PM »
 If I can get an exemption to be in the same room as Wayne I'll be there. I have no dinner party to go to .
« Last Edit: November 20, 2007, 05:27:50 PM by michael_malone »
AKA Mayday

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Cobb's Creek "Restoreable"
« Reply #122 on: November 20, 2007, 06:50:30 PM »
I'm available if Joe posts a picture of the famous R&O. ;D
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Mike_Cirba

Re:Cobb's Creek "Restoreable"
« Reply #123 on: November 20, 2007, 08:47:35 PM »
I'll be there and looking forward to it.

Powell, Geoffrey, others?

Doug Braunsdorf

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Cobb's Creek "Restoreable"
« Reply #124 on: November 20, 2007, 10:55:42 PM »
It's Saturday.  Please reserve a spot for me.  
"Never approach a bull from the front, a horse from the rear, or a fool from any direction."

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back