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David Harshbarger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Is there a Sheep Ranch / The Loop baby?
« on: July 30, 2020, 10:07:50 PM »
Is there a 9 hole-ish course that has the routing flexibility of Doak’s Sheep Ranch and the reversible (and them some) routing of The Loop?


By that I mean:


A course that would support 3+ ways into every hole and say 4+ distinct viable / reliable routings that are regularly played, likely in rotation?


Course might have 10-12 greens with some out of play for some routings.


Asking for a friend.


The trouble with modern equipment and distance—and I don't see anyone pointing this out—is that it robs from the player's experience. - Mickey Wright

Peter Flory

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is there a Sheep Ranch / The Loop baby?
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2020, 01:40:15 PM »
El Boqueron would have been good for that. 

MCirba

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is there a Sheep Ranch / The Loop baby?
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2020, 02:09:03 PM »
I didn't even know they were dating.
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

David Harshbarger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is there a Sheep Ranch / The Loop baby?
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2020, 08:52:44 PM »
Long distance romance.
The trouble with modern equipment and distance—and I don't see anyone pointing this out—is that it robs from the player's experience. - Mickey Wright

David Harshbarger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is there a Sheep Ranch / The Loop baby?
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2020, 09:00:14 PM »
The trouble with modern equipment and distance—and I don't see anyone pointing this out—is that it robs from the player's experience. - Mickey Wright

Pete_Pittock

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Re: Is there a Sheep Ranch / The Loop baby?
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2020, 10:15:25 PM »
« Last Edit: August 03, 2020, 02:25:36 AM by Pete_Pittock »

David Harshbarger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is there a Sheep Ranch / The Loop baby?
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2020, 12:20:35 AM »
El Boqueron has a cool reversible 9. Even though the playing corridors are the same in both directions the angle into the greens is different most times.


I’m thinking something like this but with a few more greens at the size say to add some greens you might see once some rounds and to open up alternate routings that play across the corridors.


I think a key feature of the Middle green complexes would be to Support routings from all directions.
The trouble with modern equipment and distance—and I don't see anyone pointing this out—is that it robs from the player's experience. - Mickey Wright

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +0/-1
Re: Is there a Sheep Ranch / The Loop baby?
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2020, 07:19:31 AM »
There was only one green at The Sheep Ranch 1.0 that you could approach from four directions - green D in the middle.  It was larger than the rest, and fairly nondescript.  It did sit on the edge of a drop that was a factor in most approach shots.


There have been a few designs like you describe on paper.  The only one I've seen that was built is Ellerstina, on a polo ranch in Argentina, with a bunch of greens laid out around two old polo fields and holes crossing every which way.  But not even that had a lot of greens in the middle!

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is there a Sheep Ranch / The Loop baby?
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2020, 11:53:39 AM »
Wasn’t Mackenzies design for a short course at ANGC, the short course that never got built, 9-double greens and reversible?
Atb

Edward Glidewell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is there a Sheep Ranch / The Loop baby?
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2020, 04:31:01 PM »
The new Bobby Jones in Atlanta is a reversible 9 hole course, but I don't think it has very many holes where you could play into the green from any direction. There may be a couple.

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is there a Sheep Ranch / The Loop baby?
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2020, 05:55:32 PM »
Three Ponds has a green approached from three distictly different greens, one from two completely different angles, one from a slightly different angle and one that serves as a par 4 and a par 3 from different angles.
4 greens total



9 distinctly different holes, 18 is a bit of a stretch
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is there a Sheep Ranch / The Loop baby?
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2020, 08:41:14 PM »
TOC
It's all about the golf!

Peter Bowman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is there a Sheep Ranch / The Loop baby?
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2020, 03:15:57 PM »
Is there a 9 hole-ish course that has the routing flexibility of Doak’s Sheep Ranch and the reversible (and them some) routing of The Loop?


By that I mean:


A course that would support 3+ ways into every hole and say 4+ distinct viable / reliable routings that are regularly played, likely in rotation?

Course might have 10-12 greens with some out of play for some routings.


Asking for a friend.


This is exactly what I have envisioned would be great fun for golf and have been aspiring to build one of this exact structure in 12-15 years when I reach my semi-retirement years.  Of course it's just a dream and the reality of funding and acquiring good land for this is the expected deal breaker.  Was hoping I'll be the first but apparently I"m not the first or only one to dream about this.  I'll be eager to play a course designed this way
« Last Edit: August 05, 2020, 03:17:42 PM by Peter Bowman »

Mark Fedeli

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is there a Sheep Ranch / The Loop baby?
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2020, 04:18:22 PM »
The Horse Course at Prairie Club is close to what you're suggesting, though on a smaller scale and without any set routings — though it could easily have them if desired.
South Jersey to Brooklyn. @marrrkfedeli

David Harshbarger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is there a Sheep Ranch / The Loop baby?
« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2020, 01:27:18 AM »
Is there a 9 hole-ish course that has the routing flexibility of Doak’s Sheep Ranch and the reversible (and them some) routing of The Loop?


By that I mean:


A course that would support 3+ ways into every hole and say 4+ distinct viable / reliable routings that are regularly played, likely in rotation?

Course might have 10-12 greens with some out of play for some routings.


Asking for a friend.


This is exactly what I have envisioned would be great fun for golf and have been aspiring to build one of this exact structure in 12-15 years when I reach my semi-retirement years.  Of course it's just a dream and the reality of funding and acquiring good land for this is the expected deal breaker.  Was hoping I'll be the first but apparently I"m not the first or only one to dream about this.  I'll be eager to play a course designed this way

Maybe there will be another who will see the beauty of this too!

 :D
The trouble with modern equipment and distance—and I don't see anyone pointing this out—is that it robs from the player's experience. - Mickey Wright

David Harshbarger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is there a Sheep Ranch / The Loop baby?
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2020, 01:42:40 AM »
The Horse Course at Prairie Club is close to what you're suggesting, though on a smaller scale and without any set routings — though it could easily have them if desired.


That’s cool.


The multiple known and used routings are with the idea that the course should be able to function normally: like that e amusement park ride most courses behave as.


I think you’d end up with no defined fairways.  And the challenges would be things like taking the hole on the ridge, then close by the stream, then up at the head of the valley.


I doubt it would be space efficient.  Nor fair.



The trouble with modern equipment and distance—and I don't see anyone pointing this out—is that it robs from the player's experience. - Mickey Wright

Ben Hollerbach

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is there a Sheep Ranch / The Loop baby?
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2020, 08:56:02 AM »



Ellerstina would be the closest in existence today. Although, as Tom pointed out, what your asking requires a lot of internal greens where its probably more prodigious to move the greens closer to the property perimeter to maximize space.


There was an estate course near Oklahoma City That use to have quite a number of reversible holes, but it appears that half the property has been abandoned.


Cabin Bluff in South Georgia is probably not exactly what you're speaking of, but still a neat concept and more on the scale of what your proposing.


I've sketched out a few concepts of the idea in the past, but it seems very contingent on the land available to give each green that many playing options. I often try to identify a few key primary approaches to each green while not eliminating other avenues players may choose.  Most recently Zac Blair asked met to put together a speculative routing for a Ellerstina type course that would be build along with his Buck Club.

Alex Miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is there a Sheep Ranch / The Loop baby?
« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2020, 01:56:44 PM »



I see some reversability / options here...

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +0/-1
Re: Is there a Sheep Ranch / The Loop baby?
« Reply #18 on: August 13, 2020, 08:31:23 PM »
It looks a lot like The Loop, just because of the continuous fairway from green to tee to fairway, but the contours ultimately determine if it would work well in reverse.

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