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Matt_Cohn

  • Karma: +0/-0
"Even an idiot can't mess this up."
« on: August 14, 2007, 07:44:38 PM »
So said Tiger Woods about the property for his course in North Carolina.

Does anyone agree with that statement?
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David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Even an idiot can't mess this up."
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2007, 07:58:53 PM »
In a word, no.


That's why they are called idiots. ;D


I'm sure someone could have fouled up CPC, but fortunately, it fell into the hands of a master. As much as people kid about CPC being this property that was so easy, anybody could've done it, I don't buy it for a second. You can have the best musicians in the world, but if you can't write the music, it means nothing.
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"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re:"Even an idiot can't mess this up."
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2007, 08:15:11 PM »
I hope that Tiger does not find out the hard way.

In reality, it's unlikely he will mess it up -- he can afford to find the help he needs to succeed.  But to say that nobody could mess it up, well, if that's true, then who needs to pay him so much to design it when they could hire an idiot?
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Mark Bourgeois

Re:"Even an idiot can't mess this up."
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2007, 08:20:45 PM »
He's got to get the drainage, right? How hard is that on top of a mountain? (Although I guess Wade Hampton might give us the idea it's harder than it seems.)
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Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Even an idiot can't mess this up."
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2007, 09:29:44 PM »
Quote from: Tom_Doak on August 14, 2007, 08:15:11 PM
I hope that Tiger does not find out the hard way.

In reality, it's unlikely he will mess it up -- he can afford to find the help he needs to succeed.  But to say that nobody could mess it up, well, if that's true, then who needs to pay him so much to design it when they could hire an idiot?

LOL.

Have any in mind?
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"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Even an idiot can't mess this up."
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2007, 09:31:34 PM »
Quote from: Dan Kelly™ on August 14, 2007, 09:29:44 PM
Quote from: Tom_Doak on August 14, 2007, 08:15:11 PM
I hope that Tiger does not find out the hard way.

In reality, it's unlikely he will mess it up -- he can afford to find the help he needs to succeed.  But to say that nobody could mess it up, well, if that's true, then who needs to pay him so much to design it when they could hire an idiot?

LOL.

Have any in mind?

Are you saying that you're available?

 ;D
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" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re:"Even an idiot can't mess this up."
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2007, 10:45:35 PM »
Dan:

For that kind of fee, there are 1,501 idiots on this site who would be glad to take on the work, myself included.
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Mark Bourgeois

Re:"Even an idiot can't mess this up."
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2007, 11:48:54 PM »
I say we cobble together a course out of those George Pazin Lido contest holes and make a pitch. We could do a pretend walk-through of the property to make it look like we're thinking deeply. Who knows how to use PowerPoint?
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Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Even an idiot can't mess this up."
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2007, 11:56:35 PM »
"Even an idiot can't mess this up."

And yet........
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Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Jim Nugent

Re:"Even an idiot can't mess this up."
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2007, 12:18:05 AM »
Quote from: Tom_Doak on August 14, 2007, 10:45:35 PM
Dan:

For that kind of fee, there are 1,501 idiots on this site who would be glad to take on the work, myself included.

What is that fee?
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David Lott

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Even an idiot can't mess this up."
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2007, 12:27:16 AM »
This is Tiger's way of avoiding saying "This land was intended by God to become a golf course."
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David Lott

igrowgrass

Re:"Even an idiot can't mess this up."
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2007, 12:36:33 AM »
Mr. Doak
Tiger has been good for the game of golf, do you think he will be good for architecture?
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Ken Moum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Even an idiot can't mess this up."
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2007, 07:50:35 AM »
I do not agree.

I played most of my golf in 2005 and 2006 on a course that was built on a beautiful piece of golf course ground, and the routing is beyond bad.

At least half the holes should have been played in the opposite direction.

I could have built a better course on it, and I can only dream about what one of our modern masters would have done.

K
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Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

SPDB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Even an idiot can't mess this up."
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2007, 10:12:00 AM »
I wonder how Fazio feels about Tiger Woods (whose senior design staff are all ex-Fazio associates) designing in his backyard.
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Lester George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Even an idiot can't mess this up."
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2007, 12:05:18 PM »
He'll learn, hopefully not the hard way.  Like TD, I'm sure he'll be successful.  But it's scary to think he really said that.
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Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re:"Even an idiot can't mess this up."
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2007, 08:12:48 AM »
Jim N:

I don't know what Tiger Woods' design fee is, but I would be willing to agree to design all my courses from here on out for whatever he's charging.
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Kyle Harris

Re:"Even an idiot can't mess this up."
« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2007, 08:38:25 AM »
Actually, I hope Tiger learns the hard way.

Perhaps seeing he's an idiot in messing up the piece of property will make him go "9 and 8" in next effort... as it were. If he makes mistakes early on and his competitive-passionate side kicks in, I think that can be very good for golf architecture down the road. I've learned to put some faith in Tiger and to give him time.

I know for a fact he's studying classic courses. Now I just hope his eyes see the right things.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2007, 08:39:16 AM by Kyle Harris »
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TaylorA

Re:"Even an idiot can't mess this up."
« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2007, 08:58:07 AM »
Quote from: SBerry on August 15, 2007, 10:12:00 AM
I wonder how Fazio feels about Tiger Woods (whose senior design staff are all ex-Fazio associates) designing in his backyard.

Beyond Beau Welling, who is on Tiger's staff?
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SPDB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Even an idiot can't mess this up."
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2007, 09:29:35 AM »
Shane Robichaud
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hhuffines

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Even an idiot can't mess this up."
« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2007, 02:15:51 PM »
The Asheville newspaper allowed that Tiger said the only thing
he knew was going on that course was a short par 4.  I like his
thinking...

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Ray Tennenbaum

Re:"Even an idiot can't mess this up."
« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2007, 03:27:06 PM »
"I won't design as many courses as Jack," Woods said. "He's designed well over 200 now. I won't do that."

in a profession where achievement comes in no small part from NOT doing certain things -- well, maybe Tiger's taken an (object) lesson from Jack.
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Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Even an idiot can't mess this up."
« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2007, 06:19:42 PM »
Quote from: Ray Tennenbaum on August 16, 2007, 03:27:06 PM
"I won't design as many courses as Jack," Woods said. "He's designed well over 200 now. I won't do that."

in a profession where achievement comes in no small part from NOT doing certain things -- well, maybe Tiger's taken an (object) lesson from Jack.


So based on this from the Donald Ross website:

"...Scotsman Donald Ross transformed the American sports landscape in the first half of this century. At his death in 1948, he left behind a legacy of 413 courses..."

Am I to beleive that Donald Ross was a big failure to GCA because he designed so many courses?  
« Last Edit: August 16, 2007, 06:20:08 PM by Kalen Braley »
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Tim Bert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Even an idiot can't mess this up."
« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2007, 10:39:03 PM »
Quote from: hhuffines on August 16, 2007, 02:15:51 PM
The Asheville newspaper allowed that Tiger said the only thing
he knew was going on that course was a short par 4.  I like his
thinking...



He probably means 390 yards.
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hhuffines

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Even an idiot can't mess this up."
« Reply #23 on: August 17, 2007, 12:20:36 AM »
Tim,

I know what you mean but I believe it was the 17th at Oakmont that he was referring to.  My favorite is hole #3 at Pinehurst but it seems they have lengthened it 30 yds to the
area beside hole #2 green.

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