[Forrest Richardson]

In the classic Bobby Jones instructional films there was one where a golfer sliced his drive and, according to a description, "...has a tree between his ball and the green. So, after 3 or 4 attempts with a "Spoon" (now we call a 2 wood), each time hitting the tree and bouncing back at his feet, Bobby Jones came to the rescue. Telling his partner he needed something with more loft, Jones puts down a ball, and with the Mashie Niblick (called a 7 or 8 iron today) promptly hits it over the tree with ease. But, to not subject his partner to any more abuse, moved the lesson into the middle of the fairway...."

I don't think Mr. Jones disliked trees on golf courses. In fact, I suspect he and Mackenzie probably discussed trees and how they might be interesting.

http://www.howstuffworks.com/video.htm?v=putt

While the above link is not a clip of that scene, it is quite nice to look at.

I am sure Augusta would be great without so many trees...but I find trees quite a decent hazard at some junctures.

[cary lichtenstein]

With just a few exceptions, the fairways are plenty wide at Augusta. #7 is narrow but reasonable, #11 has a very forced look with the trees as is #15. On both, the trees protrude out into the right side of the fairway and play with your brain, especially if you hit it right to left as I do.

I always thought the 9th hole at Butler National was too tight a driving hole as all of a sudden, after a wide open course, you are faced with a different chalenge, but I think I like the more natural look of Butler to the forced look at Augusta.

[John Kirk]

The trees add an element of luck into the equation.  Retief made a birdie from the trees on 7 only because his ball landed in a rare spot where he could fly it through a hole in the canopy.  On the other hand, Tiger broke an iron recovering on 11.

Adding trees like they do does two things.  It places a higher premium of driving accuracy, and it makes luck a bigger factor.

[Forrest Richardson]

Trees are gorse on steroids.

[Patrick_Mucci_Jr]

Let's face it, Tiger was done in by the trees - just like Phil at Winged Foot.  Tiger had tree trouble throughout the week, culminating today with second shot on 15.  But is it too much to ask of the presumptive greatest ever that he avoid the trees when he's under the gun?  

If Augusta had merely added the length and not the trees, Tiger would win all the time. He can deal with bad angles.  The real Tiger proofing is the trees.  He'll win his share, but the trees are what keep him honest.

Phil,

Are you sure that most of the trees that Tiger hit hadn't been there for 50 years ?

[John Kirk]

Patrick,

I'm pretty sure the tree Tiger attempted to slice his second shot on 15 around was part of the big tree planting between 15 and 17 a few years back.  I could be wrong.

I don't know about the broken club tree on 11.

Tiger sure lost a lot of tee shots right this week.  He was uncharacteristically wild, and even hit 3 wood on some holes I didn't expect, like 2 and 8.

[Forrest Richardson]

If Tiger can play 72 holes at The Old Course and miss 100% of the bunkers...he certainly can play Augusta and miss the trees.

[RJ_Daley]

Forrest, you don't really mean that do you?  

[Kalen Braley]

John,

15 sure looked like it was one of the new trees.  And on 11, that was indeed one of the new trees.  The announcers even mentioned that "Tiger would have been in the fairway a couple of years back".

[Forrest Richardson]

Of course I mean it!  He is both off his game, and he doesn't have the restraint to hit the ball less far. Golf is a game of how near...not how far.

[Jim Johnson]

So ridiclulously narrow that they never once mentioned the width of the playing corridors?  C'mon.  That just defies common sense, not to mention Google Earth.

Shivas, how current is that image on Google Earth of Augusta National? I saw a view today on TV from what I am guessing was from the tower behind the 12th green looking back up the 11th fairway, and man, those trees on the right corner of the 11th fairway sure looked tighter than what I see on Google Earth.

JJ

[RJ_Daley]

Forrest, flighting a ball at TOC and missing the bunkers is completely different from flighting to avoid groves of trees up the sides or overhanging hole corridores.  Trees can be hit from 1 inch to 100 ft from the ground, and can bound your ball in any direction.  

You can play near, short, or far over the bunker, and you either miss it or are in it.  (some plead to be in it)  You hit trees on any elevation or trajectory, and you have chaos, probably more trees to pick and punch through.  

A bunker looms less ominous, and is a more predictable and negotiable hazard.  One can play out of it or to avoid them all together in a much more strategic way.  You can pretty much count the number of stroke penalty of a given bunker.  You can't be too certain what you will get, once you enter the trees.  

Assuming you don't go into gorse, and instead fly an errant shot at TOC to another FW or rough area, you have an unimpeded (vertically speaking) escape back towards line of play.  A shot amongst trees may force omni directional, goofy golf.  

You can play wild or dink diliberately around bunkers at TOC, and stay out of the bunkers.  If you play errant, or short of certain doglegs and such at a forrest like ANGC, and you can't avoid the consequences that are far worse than landing in a bunker at TOC, no matter which FW or rough area you are in at TOC.   Restraint don't work as well in forested golf courses as it does on links with only bunkers, IMO.  

[Doug Siebert]

Tiger didn't hit up by that tree on 15 because he was trying to play the angles or take advantage of width as the tree-hating purists claim as their reason they don't belong.  He was up there because he couldn't hit enough of a hook with his driver (I can give him some pointers there if he wants)

So maybe he should have hit his 3W like on 13 where he executed a very nice hook around the corner into position A.  He failed to execute the shot the course demanded.  The additional "width" that would exist there if those trees weren't planted wouldn't have added extra strategy, they'd just allow for less skill in execution still allowing the reward of going for the green in two.

Those trees exist there to tell long hitters that if they want to hit driver on that hole, they damn well better be able to execute a hook with our modern straight hitting equipment, or they will go through the fairway and have to execute a heroic shot to reach the green in two.  Tiger tried to be a hero and failed.  His fault for lacking the skill that was demanded on the tee.  Either he needed to hook that driver, or should have hit a 3W to stay short of those trees.

[Patrick_Mucci_Jr]

Patrick,

I'm pretty sure the tree Tiger attempted to slice his second shot on 15 around was part of the big tree planting between 15 and 17 a few years back.  I could be wrong.

You're correct, but, had the tree not been there, wouldn't he still have tried to hit a cut into that green, a green that runs from high right to low left ?

I don't know about the broken club tree on 11.

Tiger sure lost a lot of tee shots right this week.  He was uncharacteristically wild, and even hit 3 wood on some holes I didn't expect, like 2 and 8.

It seemed as if he was very wild, but, like Phil at Winged Foot, made amazing recoveries.

But, as Trevino said, "dogs that chase cars and Pros that chip for pars, aren't long for this world", but, he hung in there, just missing two makeables at # 14 and # 16 that could have changed the outcome.

John,

This week, Tiger made some of the most remarkable pars that I've ever seen.

I forget whether it was the first or second round, but, a mere mortal would have shot 85 from where he was most of the day.

Today, the pars he made on 11 and 15 were remarkable.

Doug Siebert,

I was intriqued by Tiger's choice of a 3-wood off the tee at # 8.

Perhaps some will claim that because Tiger played a 3-wood off the tee at # 8, that that's the preferred method of play, or the ideal strategy when playing # 8, especially into the wind.

He also hit 3-wood at # 10 and I believe at # 13 and # 14.

I thought he was suffering from a cold or wasn't feeling well since he kept blowing his nose and spitting.

It seemed that accuracy off the tee with his driver and the ability to hit a draw with it just wasn't there this week.

[John Chilver-Stainer]

The trees aren’t a good idea at 11.

I’m with Mark on this one. At number 11 it would have been an excellent oppurtunity to provide some MacKenzie Bunkers and some steep sided “pot holes” where there were more difficult lies to recover from. Rather than the trees “all the same type and size I believe”.

Particularly as Augusta National is a spectator course.
Just about the number one cardinal sin is to block off the sight lines.

In fact why not widen the fairway and put in centreline hazards or difficulties. The ultimate MacKenzie strategy - a split fairway.

The Pin Position and Wind Strength could then define the smart strategy for the day, rather than just aiming for the same thin strip 4 days in a row.

[Phil Benedict]

Pat,

I think Tiger drove into some old and new trees.  He hit it into the new trees on 11 twice and made par both times.  He made bogie from the right trees on 18 on Thursday - those trees have been there forever.  The trees on 15 are less than 10 years old.

Hootie said they wanted to bring accuracy into play and they succeeded. Tiger and Goosen suffered because of poor driving, although either could have won if a few more putts had fallen.

Johnson was first in driving accuracy and was 11 under on the par 5's without hitting any in 2.

[BCrosby]

I am dumbfounded by this thread.

Trees are good now? We like more and thicker trees? This is an improvement over prior Masters?

Watching people hack our from behind trees to the fairways is more interesting than watching people taking their best shots at tough pins?

Watching a guy win the Masters who didn't go for a single par 5 in two? Who - by plan - played the course as conservatively as it can be played. That's everyone's new concept of exciting golf? That's how we want to see the best players in the world play at the highest levels?

Beacuse as you all should know, you don't have to set up a championship venue to play that way. There are other ways to do it.

The playing corridors on 11, 15, 17 and 18 are plenty wide because you Googled those holes and they look wide to you?

Hootie was right afterall? This is what MacKenzie and Jones would have wanted for their "ideal" course?

My, my, as someone once said, we've come a long way.

Bob

 

[Mark Bourgeois]

Thank you, Bob!

Pat, 15 did call for a cut, but surely a high cut not the low one he was forced to hit, yes?

What do people think of this: everyone talks about the trees and rough as though they were separate things, but once you plant the trees, don't you HAVE to add rough?

Second, another way trees reduce thinking is they define the corridor of play for the players and frame the hole. They're like 400 yard long framing bunkers in that regard.

Mark

[Tom_Doak]

Bob:

You would prefer that a shorter hitter who would strain to reach the greens of the par fives in two would just have no chance of winning the tournament, no matter how well he plays?  While Tiger, way off his game and driving it all over the lot, still wins?

Proliferation of trees is still a terrible idea for the average golfer.

[Dan Boerger]

I know I'm in the distinct minority here, but with the massive green complexes, and mild rough, I think Augusta is a better and more interesting course with the trees they planted. And although the winner didn't go for any par 5's in two ... didn't he play them well under par?

[Mike Hendren]

Tiger's punch-out at the second was from trees that had been there a while.  Left on two has long been considered jail, with one participant suggesting years ago that they place an airline reservation desk down there on Friday so anyone in the vicinity can go ahead and book their flight home that evening.

Mike

[Phil Benedict]

Bob:

You would prefer that a shorter hitter who would strain to reach the greens of the par fives in two would just have no chance of winning the tournament, no matter how well he plays?  While Tiger, way off his game and driving it all over the lot, still wins?

Proliferation of trees is still a terrible idea for the average golfer.

This is the whole point of this thread.  In championship golf, trees serve as an equalizer.  Augusta is primarily a championship venue.

Geoff Shackleford had a great line in his blog wondering what Tiger is going to say to his design mentor about the trees he planted on 15.

[Jim_Coleman]

    The trees arguably (but not always) take away the opportunity for the heroic shot after a MISHIT drive.  (Wouldn't Tiger's shot on 15 been heroic if he'd pulled it off?  Would it have been less or more heroic if there were no trees or rough and he hit a routine 4 iron on the green?)  No trees allow a (possibly heroic) birdie opportunity after a MISHIT drive.  Some would put a premium on driving; other would not.  Is there a right answer?  No.  Only an opinion.

[Matt MacIver]

I would also submit that not all trees are criminal; well-placed ones keep things (read: angles and options) interesting and possibly more leveling between B&G and short hitters.  

I really enjoy HarbourTown for just that reason, while most of my friends can't stand the place.  Talk about night-and-day between two courses over two weeks.  

[A.G._Crockett]

Bob:

You would prefer that a shorter hitter who would strain to reach the greens of the par fives in two would just have no chance of winning the tournament, no matter how well he plays?  While Tiger, way off his game and driving it all over the lot, still wins?

Proliferation of trees is still a terrible idea for the average golfer.

This is the whole point of this thread.  In championship golf, trees serve as an equalizer.  Augusta is primarily a championship venue.

Geoff Shackleford had a great line in his blog wondering what Tiger is going to say to his design mentor about the trees he planted on 15.

Trees serve as an equalizer IF you wish to place a far greater premium on driving accuracy than driving distance, which is obviously the case now at ANGC.  I'm not at all convinced that finding ways to "equalize" is a good thing, and doing it with trees is one of my least favorite ways of all.  

As to Tiger's shot on 15, how is it good that taking away one guy's ability to hit a high, soft shot with a long iron out of the rough is a good thing?  Nicklaus became a legend hitting high, soft cuts with long irons, didn't he?

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