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A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Firm and Fast at ANGC this year?
« on: March 25, 2007, 01:07:25 PM »
For all of us who have been hoping to see Augusta National play really firm and fast to completely assess the changes to the course (trees not included ;D), this could be the year.

It has been a relatively dry spring here in Georgia, with Augusta currently several inches below normal for precipitation.  I can't recall courses being as F&F in late March as they are right now; seems much more like the conditions we might see in late summer or the fall in that regard.

There is no significant rainfall forecast here over the next ten days, which takes us up through the middle of Masters week.  For the past several years, the ground has been soggy enough that any rain during the toonamint has been significant; this year that may not be the case due to the current dryness.

Could be even more interesting than usual, and it is ALWAYS interesting.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Firm and Fast at ANGC this year?
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2007, 01:24:56 PM »
Since the changes at AGNC over the past 3-5 years, I don't believe the Masters has so far been played under firm, fast and windy conditions. If those conditions do materialize this year, I think the scores may turn out to be MUCH higher than we used to seeing.

G Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Firm and Fast at ANGC this year?
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2007, 02:15:42 PM »
ANGC will probably just press the big red rain button inside the clubhouse and a cloud will be artifiially created to make sure the course is nice and receptive to target golf...

Joe Fairey

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Firm and Fast at ANGC this year?
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2007, 03:02:56 PM »
Unfortunately, ANGC has not been able to have the Masters played under dry conditions since the last course changes...

Even with Subair under all the greens and in several landing areas, the golf course plays much easier when wet...I would enjoy seeing 'firm and fast' for once on the present course...if so, I like one/two under to win...

Looking forward to a great week..

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Firm and Fast at ANGC this year?
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2007, 09:05:59 AM »
Just as an update of this:

A very, very slight amount of rain yesterday, but nothing that would soften the course in any way.  30% chance of isolated showers Tuesday and Wednesday, but no fronts on the move at all.  The weather from Thursday on is forecast to be much cooler and completely dry.

The long and the short of this is that if ever ANGC will be F&F enough to fully appreciate the changes that have been made, this year is it.  I can't really imagine a lead in to the first week of March more dry that this one has been in Georgia, and certainly moreso that the last couple of years.  The greens alone could be absolutely deadly if the management decides to make them so.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

John Kavanaugh

Re:Firm and Fast at ANGC this year?
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2007, 09:10:31 AM »
Here is the ten day forecast for Augusta National...We need to hope the showers skip Wednesday but by Sunday things should be perfect.

http://tinyurl.com/yof372
« Last Edit: April 02, 2007, 09:12:02 AM by John Kavanaugh »

Gary Daughters

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Firm and Fast at ANGC this year?
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2007, 04:27:08 PM »

AG..

I've begun to wonder whether Augusta National will ever play F/F.  The turf feels spongy, not springy.  And isn't the way they've taken to cutting the fairways meant to actually inhibit the ball from running?

As you say, this should be the year we learn.  

Amazing, isn't it, how often the Thursday round is played on a cool, windy day with Sunday being perfectly benign springtime weather?
THE NEXT SEVEN:  Alfred E. Tupp Holmes Municipal Golf Course, Willi Plett's Sportspark and Driving Range, Peachtree, Par 56, Browns Mill, Cross Creek, Piedmont Driving Club

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Firm and Fast at ANGC this year?
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2007, 06:31:16 PM »
Gary,
It may have been so warm and dry that the club has had to water the rye to keep it as lush as they want it to be.  That would be unfortunate if it is the case.  We shall soon see...
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Gary Daughters

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Firm and Fast at ANGC this year?
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2007, 06:42:10 PM »

Nicholson's stated desire for fast and firm aside I think lush, as you say, may be the #1 problem.

This will be interesting.
THE NEXT SEVEN:  Alfred E. Tupp Holmes Municipal Golf Course, Willi Plett's Sportspark and Driving Range, Peachtree, Par 56, Browns Mill, Cross Creek, Piedmont Driving Club

Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Firm and Fast at ANGC this year?
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2007, 07:58:11 PM »
"... and I liked the guy ..."

Gary Daughters

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Firm and Fast at ANGC this year?
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2007, 09:03:46 PM »

Will Nicholson.  

Head of the Competition Committee, or whatever the Green Jackets call it.

Not Jack.
THE NEXT SEVEN:  Alfred E. Tupp Holmes Municipal Golf Course, Willi Plett's Sportspark and Driving Range, Peachtree, Par 56, Browns Mill, Cross Creek, Piedmont Driving Club

Gary Daughters

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Firm and Fast at ANGC this year?
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2007, 10:13:08 AM »

Something screwy has happened to the Masters weather forecast.

http://www.weatherunderground.com/US/GA/Augusta.html
THE NEXT SEVEN:  Alfred E. Tupp Holmes Municipal Golf Course, Willi Plett's Sportspark and Driving Range, Peachtree, Par 56, Browns Mill, Cross Creek, Piedmont Driving Club

Brent Hutto

Re:Firm and Fast at ANGC this year?
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2007, 10:41:56 AM »
Gary,

Not sure what aspect of the forecast is screwy. That's pretty much the weather everyone has been predicting for this part of the country the next few days. Here in Columbia it's much the same as Augusta and I'm going to be in the Pinehurst area Thu/Fri and that's going to be quite cool.

Just your basic breezy, cool early-Spring days with cold nights. Too bad they didn't play last weekend, it was remarkable.

Doug Siebert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Firm and Fast at ANGC this year?
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2007, 02:40:15 AM »
The guys who start at 8AM on Friday will have a huge disadvantage, IMHO, starting when the wind chill is likely to be near freezing!
« Last Edit: April 05, 2007, 02:40:59 AM by Doug Siebert »
My hovercraft is full of eels.

Ryan Crago

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Firm and Fast at ANGC this year?
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2007, 03:01:01 AM »
so much for firm and fast: (from g.shack)

"Still, despite the dry weather, Augusta National is playing to all of its 7,445 yards.

"There's a lot more grass on the fairways this year, and I think they've been watering them," said Scott Gneiser, who caddies for David Toms. "We hit a drive on 5 right up the gut and splat! We saw water fly up from the tee."

The 2006 U.S. Open champion, Geoff Ogilvy, said: "I think they're watering them because it hasn't rained that much."

Jerry Kelly agreed. "Are they ever," he said. "I'm getting one, two yards of roll on my driver, and it's kind of killing me."

Alas, the greens are not being watered, so short hitters have little or no chance of holding them with long-iron and fairway-wood approach shots."

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Firm and Fast at ANGC this year?
« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2007, 03:50:19 AM »
BBC preview coverage last night also suggested that they'd watered the fairways, fairly heavily.  Surely that just plays into the hands of the very longest hitters?
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Lloyd_Cole

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Firm and Fast at ANGC this year?
« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2007, 09:02:16 AM »
so much for firm and fast: (from g.shack)

"Still, despite the dry weather, Augusta National is playing to all of its 7,445 yards.

"There's a lot more grass on the fairways this year, and I think they've been watering them," said Scott Gneiser, who caddies for David Toms. "We hit a drive on 5 right up the gut and splat! We saw water fly up from the tee."

The 2006 U.S. Open champion, Geoff Ogilvy, said: "I think they're watering them because it hasn't rained that much."

Jerry Kelly agreed. "Are they ever," he said. "I'm getting one, two yards of roll on my driver, and it's kind of killing me."

Alas, the greens are not being watered, so short hitters have little or no chance of holding them with long-iron and fairway-wood approach shots."

I just read this and was about to post it myself. Mind boggling behaviour. Are they worried that they might 'lose' the fairways?

Lloyd_Cole

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Firm and Fast at ANGC this year?
« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2007, 11:25:02 PM »
I'm bumping this because after watching about 90 minutes today all I could discern was that the greens were clearly firm. Faldo and Feherty both made references to 'firm and fast' conditions.
Is the ball running on the fairway?

Matt_Cohn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Firm and Fast at ANGC this year?
« Reply #18 on: April 06, 2007, 12:50:00 AM »
Not sure where to post this, but, Justin Rose shot 69 hitting five greens today. Yes, five.

He had 20 putts.

tlavin

Re:Firm and Fast at ANGC this year?
« Reply #19 on: April 06, 2007, 08:27:24 AM »
Here's a sampling of the predictable whining among those who want to see more birdies and eagles on a softened ANGC:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/golf/cs-070405masters,1,2016647.story?coll=chi-sportstop-hed

For historical reference, this chap is the same golf writer who pilloried Olympia Fields for being "too soft" and too susceptible to birdies and eagles during the first two days of our Open (I know, it seems like I'll never get over it!) and then remained predictably mute when the weather shifted and the course firmed up.

Bottom line, even with their sophisticated mechanical drain and dry systems for the greens, ANGC is at the mercy of natural meteorological forces.  In the past five or six years, they've been waiting for a very firm playing surface and now that they have it, you'll hear the players reverently bleat about the tough conditions (without slamming the setup of course, you don't piss on the Masters like the USGA) and the uninformed media who want the players to throw darts on the greens.

Here's hoping that the hoses are kept in the shed and the course gets crunchy.  Wouldn't it be neat to see a winner right around par?

Mark Bourgeois

Re:Firm and Fast at ANGC this year?
« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2007, 09:24:26 AM »
Wouldn't it be neat to see a winner right around par?

No.

tlavin

Re:Firm and Fast at ANGC this year?
« Reply #21 on: April 06, 2007, 09:31:08 AM »
Wouldn't it be neat to see a winner right around par?

No.

Obviously I disagree.  There's nothing wrong with making the course very difficult.  This is allegedly a major championship after all.  One can argue all day about the architectural merits or demerits of planting groves of mature pines in what used to be landing areas, but making the greens firm and fast for a major championship should be a must, if they can get it done.  Without the spring rains this year, they can get it done and the scores will soar.  I think that's great.  I won't need a bunch of players shooting 32 on the back nine on Sunday to call this a great Masters.  If it's a grinders Masters instead of a birdie/eagle Masters, I think that's a good thing.  This isn't the Buick Open and they aren't playing Warwick Hills.  It's great to see some sharp teeth at ANGC.


Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Firm and Fast at ANGC this year?
« Reply #22 on: April 06, 2007, 10:05:08 AM »
I like the grind-fest of the US Open, with guys -- to paraphrase a GCA poster last year -- puking all over themselves down the stretch in an effort to just par holes.

I like the swings of momentum -- birdies, eagles, doubles and whatnot -- that had traditionally been the focal point of Augusta. I think the Warwick example is a false one; those are birdie-fests. Augusta at its best had huge momentum swings; look at the '98 tourney (currently showing on the Golf Channel) for an example of how suddenly momentum can swing in the course of even a few holes, as players take risks, knowing those they are playing with can make up ground in a hurry. Augusta in its prime was both exacting and punishing for mis-played shots and risky errors, while yielding to birdies and eagles for expertly played ones. That's very different than either the brutal nature of a Winged Foot setup, or the Warwick's of the world. I miss it.


Brock Peyer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Firm and Fast at ANGC this year?
« Reply #23 on: April 06, 2007, 03:48:54 PM »
I wish that it were warmer but I love the way that the course is playing.  I think the temps have nearly as much to do with the high scores as the cold weather.  I love it!!!

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Firm and Fast at ANGC this year?
« Reply #24 on: April 06, 2007, 03:51:27 PM »
 I think the temps have nearly as much to do with the high scores as the cold weather.

I live this for this stuff........ ;D
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

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