[Bill Satterfield]

Old School:  Cypress Point and Los Angeles CC

New School:  Thanksgiving Point (Lehi, UT - #17 is amazing), Shadow Creek (#13 is my favoirte), and MC at Aldarra.

[Greg Clark]

Teeth of the Dog's par 3's are stellar.  Whistling Straits as well.  I've never been fortunate enough yet to tee it up at Cypress Point, but I would still vote for the set of 3's there also.

[Mike Salinetti]

HARBOUR TOWN

[JR Potts]

Shoreacres has 3 world class 3 pars.

Whistling Straits has 4 really good ones.

[Steve Lapper]

1) Pine Valley...not a better set for variety and style

2) Royal Melbourne West...clearly a spectrum of shot values

3) Somerset Hills...Tillies finest mix with simply great examples

4) CPC....having two of the world's top 5 count for alot.

5) Sand Hills...where else does the wind change everything
                    everyday?

[Michael Dugger]

Bandon Dunes's par 3's are the best on the resort.

I don't agree

[Scott Stearns]

camargo.

[Andrew Mitchell]

From courses I've played:
Royal Dornoch
North Berwick
Cruden Bay
Hoylake

[Mark Pearce]

Another mention for Burnham & Berrow.  I also think the par 3s at Muirfield are very strong.

[Ted Kramer]

I haven't played a course that comes close to Shinnecock with regards to the par 3s. . . .what an amazing golf course

-Ted

[Mark_Fine]

There must be 50 different courses listed here.  I'm sure everyone feels strongly about each choice but this is a great example for all of us as to why "ranking" of courses is sooo subjective (and also why we shouldn't abuse the guys who participate in the rankings).   It has most to do with personal preference and how many different courses that individual has seen.  We all tend to gravitate to what we know and have experienced.  This thread all but proves that point.  
 

[wsmorrison]

"I'm sure everyone feels strongly about each choice but this is a great example for all of us as to why "ranking" of courses is sooo subjective (and also why we shouldn't abuse the guys who participate in the rankings).  It has most to do with personal preference and how many different courses that individual has seen.  We all tend to gravitate to what we know and have experienced.  This thread all but proves that point."


Mark,

Actually, it proves the contrary, namely that this is why rankings as a subjective process biased by individual experience and preference is flawed and of little value.  As an interested party, it is not surprising that you would find the flaws supportive of the process and the participants, however an objective perspective leads to a different conclusion.

[John Kirk]

...or this proves that par 3 holes aren't what differentiate good from great courses.  Because they are designed for one shot, par 3s are the simplest and least interesting holes architecturally.

I mentioned Yale and Riviera initially as possessing great short holes, but that's me talking with my head, not my heart.  I'd rather play the par 3s on my favorite courses (Pacific Dunes, Ballyneal, etc.) any day.

[wsmorrison]

I think I agree with you that par 3 holes do not, by themselves, differentiate good from great courses.  However, while I think some architects do/did not rout the courses with them foremost in mind and did not emphasize the design par 3s as being important and highly interesting, they are usually more memorable than most holes to average and interested players.  Some architects did not dismiss their importance and some were critical to the greatness of the course.  In my experience, I think Rolling Green, Cypress Point, Shinnecock Hills, Philadelphia Country, Somerset Hills, NGLA (2 out of 3 great par 3s), Maidstone and others are examples of this.  

[Phil McDade]

Lawsonia has a very good set of par 3s -- maybe not as dramatically/visually spectacular as Whistling Straits, but varied and full of challenge, for the most part. The five holes go to four different points of the compass, a good indication of Langford's thoughtful approach to short holes.

#4: 203/175 -- a tough redan-esque hole (tho the green lacks the requisite tilt), uphill and often into the wind, surrounded by bunkers.

#7: 161/146 -- a very good short, to a volcano-like green site, supposedly with a train boxcar buried there; a true do-or-die hole.

#10: 239/217 -- a wood for most players, slightly uphill, with deceptive bunkering and visuals.

#12: 183/171 -- over flat terrain, the green makes this hole. A very wide but not very deep green with a huge slope slicing it in half.

#14: 154/139 -- the easiest of the set, downhill (tho not a drop shot); long is dead.

[Mark_Fine]

Wayne,
Aren't almost all rankings based on as you say "individual experience and preference".  But that doesn't mean they are of little value as you suggest.  Please explain "an objective perspective" which would lead to a different conclusion?  I'm not sure there is such a thing as we all have our biases and golf architecture is not something that is black and white.  

I've always said, forget whether a course is #30 or #98 on the Golf Digest or Golf Magazine or Golfweek Top 100 lists.  If it is on the list, it is probably worth seeing and you will learn something from it.  That is value enough for most golfers.  

The best courses eventually migrate to the top sooner or later.  There is a reason that all the major lists have probably an 80% or more overlap.  The other 20% makes for interesting discussion.

John,
You make a good point as well.  

[Mike Hoak]

Of the courses I have played I would have to put Harbour Town at the top.  

I also like the lineup of par 3 holes at the Golden Horseshoe Gold course .  If my memory serves me correctly, they all play along, across, or in the large bowl depression in the middle of the property, but each hole is very different from the other.  It also has, in my opinion, the most tasteful island hole in golf.  

[William King]

I heard from several people that I really respect about the quality of Harbour Town's short holes.  I'm not sure if it was the day that I caught it, but three of the four short holes were a five iron and the 14th was a 6.  To me a great set of short holes need to be varied in distance and the ones at HT aren't IMHO.  

Adam,

I'd have to agree with your statement wholeheartedly. It happens all to often that I get to the final par 3 on a course and I'm picking the same club or another in the same subset (mid-iron for example) out of my bag and all I can do is YAWN!  I would go further and say that not only variety in clubbing, but in trouble and nature of the challenge is also needed to hold my attention. No course does this for me like Cobblestone GC (ackworth, GA) (GD 100 Best You Can Play). Varied and challenging that's the ticket.

[JESII]

I think a bland, repetitive set of one-shotters can leave a stronger negative impression than bland two or three-shotters...that is, in the context of your standard good solid golf course.

In other words, give me a good course, by whatever standard you prefer, and break it down into three classes (one, two and three shots) and weak par 3's will stand out to me more than the other two classes.

Does that mean great par 3's stand out above and beyond great par 4's and 5's? I don't know. When I think of Pine Valley I don't necessarily think of the par 3's first. While the 3's are very good and diverse, I think of the 5's and the variety of the 4's. For Shinnecock, I think of the 3's first and foremost. I think they are as good as it could be.

[Glenn Spencer]

I think a bland, repetitive set of one-shotters can leave a stronger negative impression than bland two or three-shotters...that is, in the context of your standard good solid golf course.

In other words, give me a good course, by whatever standard you prefer, and break it down into three classes (one, two and three shots) and weak par 3's will stand out to me more than the other two classes.

Does that mean great par 3's stand out above and beyond great par 4's and 5's? I don't know. When I think of Pine Valley I don't necessarily think of the par 3's first. While the 3's are very good and diverse, I think of the 5's and the variety of the 4's. For Shinnecock, I think of the 3's first and foremost. I think they are as good as it could be.

Complete agreement. Camargo is a good example of this. I like the par 3's there a lot, but strangely, I find The Eden being the 'worst' of the bunch.

The Honors Course has a solid and diverse set of par 3's.

Huntington CC. The par 3's here are fantastic.

Miami Valley Golf Club (Ross) has some good par 3's.

[JESII]

The notion that...

quoted from John Kirk:

...or this proves that par 3 holes aren't what differentiate good from great courses.  Because they are designed for one shot, par 3s are the simplest and least interesting holes architecturally.

...rings false with me.

I think a well done set of par 3's are all too rare and are an opportunity to elevate a course to another level of quality.

What would be the keys? Variety in length, setting, green complexities, challenge level etc...

[Glenn Spencer]

The par 3's are the first thing that I think of at Crooked Stick. I think they are the best 4 that I have seen on one golf course, potentially. NCR has a really good set as well. #2 at this course is one of the best 175-185 yard holes in the world, in my opinion. I am not sure that another shot in golf has ever made me so nervous about making double. If you miss the green and catch the wrong lie, it just becomes harder and harder to hit the green. Nicklaus called 15 one of the best in the world. 13 is rock solid and 8 is not bad at all, but it is by far the ugly duckling. The other 3 are really, really good.

[JESII]

Are there any real good to great courses that do not have a solid (if not great) set of 3's?

It seems there is a thread going on right now listing great courses with less than great 5's...due to the numbers (usually at least 10) it would be pretty impossible to have medicre 4's on a great course.

[Jason Topp]

The Australian courses I played had the best par threes I have ever experienced by a fairly wide margin:

Royal Melbourne West
Kingston Heath

Best I've seen in the US - Sand Hills

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Crail, Bandon Trails, TOC, Cypress Pointe, Pebble Beach, NGLA

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