[mike_malone]

Just played for first time and was surprised at how little terrain was used to create the challenges.Par three  greens  were mostly at level of tee,fairway lies were mostly flat,greenside traps were not deep,greens were not usually above or below approach,few tees were elevated,natural hazards were rare.
 I am probably biased,but i think the best courses use natural features to create a variety of challenges .This course was immaculately maintained and the "Arnold" aura is wonderful,but i am mystified at its high ranking

[ChipOat]

You said the magic word - "Arnold".

That's not entirely fair to AP since Bay Hill is UNDERrated, IMO.

Having not played Laurel, I can't agree or disagree.  However, if you're right, you hit the nail on the head.

Having had a PGA there doesn't hurt, either.

Maybe you'll get some argument on here as to your assessment, as well.

[mike_malone]

I believe Dick Wilson designed the course,but our caddie,who has been there for 30+ years said he would not recognize it as his

[mike_malone]

Interesting that is top 100 in Golf Digest but not on Golfweek's classic list.

[PAguest]

Alot of Laurel Valley's reputation is built on being "immaculately maintained" (to the point of being overwatered and soft, in my opinion) because it is primarily used by corporate heavy-hitters for entertaining and hosts innumerable outings throughout the year. I imagine the mindset is "Keep it green and keep 'em happy".  

In addition, Laurel has had the reputation of making numerous changes to the course on an annual basis (for example, #18 has been changed back and forth from a par 4 to a par 5 a number of times). Whether this is due to the King's influence or not is debatable but Palmer's influence unquestionably exists throughout the club.

The only time this summer that I played Laurel was in July and I was looking forward to finally playing it under "firm & fast" conditions due to the dry weather we'd been having. I was disappointed to find soft, wet conditions and was amused to see them watering the rough and trees continuously all day. Having said all this, Laurel is still a beautiful setting and long, challenging course but could be immensely improved IMHO by turning off the water occassionally!

On a related note, Laurel was just replaced as host of next year's Pennsylvania Classic PGA tour stop by the interesting combo of Pete Dye's Mystic Rock, Joe Hardy and 84 Lumber.

[Jonathan Cummings]

Mayday,

very small correction, Laurel Valley, built in 1961, is on the GOLFWEEK ballot of modern courses, not classical courses.

It was a top 100 modern course for all years except 2000.

JC

[SPDB1]

Dick Wilson courses seem to enjoy this sort of treatment. Deepdale is the same way. Its also pretty exclusive, like Deepdale, and so its rating probably benefits from that as well, again, like Deepdale. In the Pittsburgh area, it shares a lot of its membership with Rolling Rock, and Fox Chapel, and most, i imagine, would tell you they would rather play those courses than LV.

[Jonathan Cummings]

Wilson was building courses right around the 1960 modern/classical break point for GOLFWEEK lists.  To me, Wilson courses like Hole-in-the-Wall and Coldstream have more of a classical flavor to them then modern but GW had to make a break somewhere...

[mike_malone]

Jonathan
  I have the 2002 ratings and it is not on modern list.

[mike_malone]

PAGuest
   You speak my mind(old quaker expression)
    I was shocked at the lushness of the fairways and the softness of the greens.The course is an example of the late 50's era and the Palmer touch.
 We all hit left of the 17th green and the caddie said that was the  old green that had significant break in it.The new green was dull by comparison.The move was made to accomadate a new championship tee for 18.
  I complain about things at my club but there would be a riot of our members if a green was moved like that.

[Matt_Ward]

mayday:

I agree with your take on Laurel Valley. The comments athat were also mentioned about using too much H20 are also 100% on target. When you have a very hot and dry summer and then play Laurel Valley and you're taking veal cutlet size divots you have to wonder what the thinking is?

Very few of the holes are memorable and Dick Wilson's style there would be far better served if the course was much firmer.

Laurel Valley gets plenty of mileage from "The King" connection, but the course is one of two Pennsy courses, I believe, are way overrated. The other? Saucon Valley in the Lehigh Valley area.

[wsmorrison]

Matt,

Which, or is it all, of the three courses at Saucon Valley are you referring to as overrated?  The Old (Strong) or the Weyhill and Grace (both by Gordon)?  Interesting that Wilson (Laurel Valley) and Gordons were proteges of William Flynn.  

[Matt_Ward]

wsmorrison:

Thanks for your message.

I have to say the Gordon design of the Grace course has got be one of the biggest yawn courses I've ever played. How the course maintained top 100 status for soooooo long is completely beyond me. There are few holes of real design merit and it's just the run-of-the-mill design with bunkers in flanking positions with greens that have little character.

The Old is a good layout but I'd take Lehigh over it on a heartbeat and the Weyhill Course is Ok but nothing more.

One other item about the Grace -- the terrain is really a bore. You would think being in the Lehigh Valley area you would get some nice pitch and roll. Na-da.

Just because Saucon hosted the Senior Open twice does not convey anything special to me although I'm sure there are some people who think hosting major event means you have a course of high distinction. As you, and others on GCA know, that's not always the case by any means.

[Jonathan Cummings]

Hey sorry Mayday, you are absolutely right.  LV is not on the 2000 and 2002 modern lists.  It was 96th in 2001.

[mike_malone]

Jonathan
  It seems that Golfweek has it right.As changes were made on the  course and time went by the ranking slumped.

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