[Ally Mcintosh]

following on from mitch's thread which went off-topic pretty rapidly (probably because of it being a hypothetical question)....

...when the r&a eventually do pick a new course to hold the open, what is the most likely contender as we stand?... one vote only i think... (n.b. new course doesn't neccesarily mean 'new', it could be 100 years old but have been revamped or just reconsidered)

still, i'll go for.... kingsbarns

[Tony_Muldoon]

Ally one of the reasons why we all love the Open is for it's role in promoting F&F and the R&A not being afraid of colours other than deep green.  However I think to the world at large this seen as purely a links thing.

If they were to look for a 'New' venue then why not move inland and use the same preparation.  This could be effective PR for the belief that the Augusta way is not the only way.

As you might expect I'd favour a traditional Heathland Course.  The London courses are not upto providing a challenging experience for the pro’s.  So it would have to be one of Woodhall, Ganton or Notts?  Are they long enough?

PS I recently read that for the 1971 Ryder Cup, by an act of Parliament, Walton Heath was closed off for one week to allow for preparation and stand construction etc.  Can you imagine today’s Open with a week to prepare the site?  I feel it’s not just the space requirements but the level of disruption that a membership would have to tolerate that means only a few places would even consider it.

[Tom_Doak]

I really hope they never go to a new site.  They've got a pretty fair rotation now, and most of them seem to have room to lengthen if necessary ... but I would hope if the equipment requires further lengthening, that the R & A decides to do something about the equipment, instead of finding a new 7700 yard links golf course.

They will never hold The Open on an inland course.  They'd hold it outside the UK first, and they aren't likely to do that, either.

[Brian Phillips]

I have to agree 100% with Tom D. there just is no point in moving it inland, that is the beauty of the championship.

Brian

[Tony_Muldoon]

Tony

I think it will be a cold day in hell before the Open goes inland.  

They will never hold The Open on an inland course.  

I have to agree 100% with Tom D. there just is no point in moving it inland, that is the beauty of the championship.

Brian

When everyone is lined up against you there’s only one possible response

“Explain to me why not?”

Please reference the following.
Sponsors and other commercial pressures would much prefer a more accessible location with better infrastructure.
They have a role to play in expanding interest in the game.
July is probably the worst month in which to predict wind for a links course.


“Tradition” will not suffice as an answer because if it was that important to them they’d have acted differently on a lot of things.

I’ve heard it said that it will never go inland 1000 times before but Ally asked us to think of a new course.

[henrye]

Other than the obvious answer of "thats the way it has always been" I would say there are two compelling reasons.  First, there isn't an inland course in the country that the big boys wouldn't demolish.  The only way to stop the birdie fest would be to change the nature of the courses in question.  Why muck with a perfectly good course just to host an Open?  Lets stick with mucking up the courses that are already being mucked with.  I don't mind a birdie fest so long as the course is interesting, but I doubt the R&A would like it.

Wentworth??

Second, The Open being on links is the only major which is really different from the other three.  Sure, the other three are different, but of the same variety.  Links is another thing altogether.

Ciao

I think Heathland fits that bill as well.  A course like Walton Heath would have to be a consideration.  Very accessible and correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Michael Campbell demolished the course the year he qualified there and went on to win the Open.  As for its similarities to US courses, I don't see it.

[Jon Wiggett]

If it wasn't for its position so close to TOC, Carnoustie and Muirfield I would also go for KB. I have to say how ever that I agree with Tom D that it doesn't need a new course on the rota at the moment. The open will never be played at an inland course.

[henrye]

Sean Arble, Tom Doak & Jon Wiggett.  Are you suggesting the R&A would never move the Open inland or shouldn't?  Why?

In considering Walton Heath, logistically, it's pretty tough to beat.  The place is about 50 feet from the M25 and a stone's throw from London.

Not enough tradition or history at Walton Heath?  Not as good as all the other Open rota courses?

Tony & Sean, what supports your notion that the current Open courses are much tougher than Walton Heath - Par 72, ss 74?

[Tommy Williamsen]

Henry, if there is an organization that holds more to tradition than the R&A I don't know what it is.  For them to move the Open inland would be unthinkable.  They have held the Open at a links since the beginning.  I for one hope they don't ever move it.  There are plenty of inland tourneys.  I would rather see the World Matchplay move from Wentworth.
I would like to see the boys tee it up at RCD, however.

[Tony_Muldoon]

Henry I think Sean has identified the real reason.  There isn't an inland course that has the traditions for The Open that could challenge the pros. However I'd still like to know why never inland?  As I've said above there are good reasons for them to do so.

I've been at Walton Heath the last two summers to see parts of the qualifying for the US Open.  If you can get the search engine to work you can find my reports.



The previous year it was much closer but still the winner scored about 132 (from memory).   Also I think that the scoring in the 1981 Ryder Cup was pretty low despite indifferent weather. The consensus was that the teams were well matched tee to green but the Americans sank more putts and won 18.5 to 9.5.  Without wishing to bring back a recent thread the flattish greens seemed to favour the much stronger team.

I also think there are logistical problems shutting off public land for a long time. Walton Heath with 36 holes to choose from could certainly be stretched.  There's already a tee for the 16th on the Old course which would play across the fairway of another hole (15th Old?) that would mean an enormous carry for the drive, and the hole is on their current card at over 600 yards - but they didn't use that tee in either of the last two years qualifying.

Commercial pressures will force more changes on the R&A and a course close that to London that has a history will be mighty appealing to them. I still don't know where it's written that The Open must be played by the sea?  

[Adrian_Stiff]

Royal Porthcawl is the most likely 'new one' in my opinion. Its got some new road infrastructure, and plans to build a new clubhouse behind the 17th, that gives it, two nines, practice ground, better crowd movement within the\last few holes and moves everything nearer the main road. Porthcawl is very near a motorway junction and has 4 good qualyifing courses: Ashburnham, Pyle, Pennard & Southerdown plus a plenty of hotels (The Celtic). The course has staged the Amateur more times than any other course on the AM rota that has not staged the Open. New Plans will stretch it to over 7 as well. So its got the pedigree. It might be a bit tight for viewing in places, but they were worried about Hoylake for that reason and it passed the test. The R & A 'like' the idea of something South West and something Welsh.
Kingsbarns I think is a bit tight in places for viewing and too near St Andrews. Dornoch too remote, Saunton is hard to get too, RCD a possibility if it goes back to Ireland, and Portmarnock too. Likely Portrush though if they go to Ireland.
The Open was considered to go to Wentworth about 50 years ago and Michael Bonnallack was in favour of it going inland then. I dont think he is now though.

[James Edwards]

I know its not new (almost forgotten though) to the rota but Royal Cinque Ports will be on the list soon (again) if it isnt already.  I think the changes were documented here in preparation for it.

j

[Tom_Doak]

James:

The only reason they are considering going to Deal is because the pros whinge so much about Sandwich, so, in that sense I think it's a shame.  Not that Deal isn't a great course, but it does bother me that they think they have to host an Open to prove something to somebody.

Others:

The Open will stay on links courses until they all go underwater, because the Brits understand that is the only true form of golf.  There are fine courses inland -- I love Walton Heath and Woodhall Spa, but that's not the point.  They are no sooner going to leave links courses for the Open than play the championships of lawn tennis [Wimbledon] on clay.

[Mark Bourgeois]

The strong and understandable desire to see championship golf on inland courses could be solved if:
1. someone blows up The Belfry, perhaps leading the tour to consider other English venues for the Ryder Cup, or
2. a "global" PGA organization was formed and the PGA Championship made into a 6-continent "floater" (venue) tournament. (Could expand to 7, the way global warming is going.)

But given the population growth of Asia and the population implosion of Europe, if #2 happens, the move might not be to inland England!

Mark

[Mark Chaplin]

Deal certainly appears to be getting a lot of support from the R&A on the course improvements but I've heard nothing on the horizon about The Open. I know a lot of members would be delighted to host the Walker Cup, that would make it part of a very select group that have held the Open, Amateur & WC. Deal has a high profile within the amateur game which gives exposure to the serious golfing public.

Tom D - I do not think the club feels it needs the Open to prove anything, we all know that the course is only part of the package for hosting an Open, without the right infrastructure, accomodation and access you cannot host it.

I've heard good things about Dundonald but it's probably too close to Troon and Turnberry. Kingsbarns is too close to St.A. My vote would be Royal Porthcawl as Harlech and Saunton are too remote.

[Jon Wiggett]

Henry,

I think that that the Open is so strongly associated with the links type of golf that it wouldn't be the Open if not played on one. All great tournaments are remembered for their character. The US Open is a severe test of golf. The Masters is the only major played at the same venue year in, year out (can you imagine it being played any where else?). The only major ever really questioned is the USPGA and that is because it has no firm character. I believe they should have stuck with the matchplay format and should consider returning to it. Maybe it would recapture some of its lost stature and maybe they could play some of the great courses not able to hold strokeplay tournaments.

As Tom D says, links golf is the ultimate form of golf and for me matchplay the ultimate way to play it.

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