[John Kavanaugh]

Why 1900 instead of 1850 or 1875.  Did guys like Macdonald, Ross or the Foulis brothers live in poverty in the old country.  Why them and not someone like old Tom Morris in the prime of his life.

[John Kavanaugh]

Now that I am learning about the birth of Macdonald...I have to ask, did the guy even study golf in Scotland.  note:  I was given the book when I joined the Seth Raynor Society but gave it to some kid on Bombsquad.

[Phil_the_Author]

John, Golf had been here for many years before 1900, in fact it was hiding away "in the closet"   since the 1700's and possibly earlier...

[John Kavanaugh]

So, John, what's it like to be the smartest guy in the (chat) room?

I think by not doing my homework I have mucked this thread up.  When does Chicago Golf claim to have been built.  I thought it was the first.

[Phil_the_Author]

Forget the Chicago Golf Club. There were newspaper advertisements at least as early as 1763 (? need to recheck the exact date) in New York City annonucing golf balls and clubs for sale...

It is my OPINION that the game did not take off until the latter part of the 1800's because of that minor thing we refer to as the Revolutionary War.

All things popular in England would have been rejected over here...

[John Kavanaugh]

Philip,

Are you sure that wasn't just some ignorant emigrant that packed them thinking they could get a game and needing money for food.

[Phil_the_Author]

So the Scots are "ignorant" now?  

[John Kavanaugh]

No not all...but I could see the guy getting on the boat with a bag of clubs on his shoulder as being "queer" at the least.

[ANTHONYPIOPPI]

Golf has been in the United States since the middle of the 1700s. I believe there are a few documented cases of golf clubs listed in the manifest of ships from the UK. When the first golf holes in North America were laid is debated with layouts in the Carolinas up to Connecticut existing well before 1800. I think the first 18-hole course in North America was in Canada, not the U.S.

Anthony

[Phil McDade]

John:

I'm guessing the golf ball had something to do with it. Golf, in Scotland and elsewhere, was still a fairly obscure game, played largely by those with a fair amount of money (the equivalant of polo today, probably...), until the introduction of the gutta percha ball @ 1850. Golf in the UK and Ireland literally exploded in popularity between 1850 and 1900, because a lot more people could afford to play it (featheries cost more than clubs back in the early days of the game). That, combined with the greater wealth generated by growing and more sophisticated economies in both the US and UK, resulted in the game drifting over to the US shores. The oldest incorporated club in the US (with records) was St. Andrews in New York, started in the 1880s?

[Dan Moore]

Macdonald was introduced to the game of golf in 1872 at the age of sixteen while studying abroad in St. Andrews.  

Chicago Golf Club in Wheaton was the first 18 hole golf course in the US; it opened in 1895.  Macdonald purchased the 200 acre site for $28,000.  The course was originally routed around the outside of the property and polo field.  Seth Raynor completely redesigned the course in the 1920's using the entire property.  The 1893 World's Fair in Chicago has been cited as an impetus for the growth of golf in the Chicago area.

[ANTHONYPIOPPI]

Dan,

Wasn't the original 18-hole Chicago Golf Club in Belmont?

Anthony

[Brad Tufts]

I touched on alot of this in my history thesis at Middlebury.

I think the main reason for the increase in golf interest in the US was the social climate of the period from about 1880-the crash.  People had time and money to spend on recreation, and this time and money finally spilled over to a middle class during these several decades.

You have a sport that has existed in relative dormancy in pockets of Scotland, spread by train South to England, by colonial army to the far reaches of the world, and to America by ship and the migration of key players in the industry to the growing American market.

Add the American "frontier spirit" and competetiveness and you get a golf explosion.  It was a way to "tame the wilderness," in both changing the land and conquering the land by playing good golf over it, while not being eaten by a bear or having to fight the natives (which were recent events in 1895).  There are also theories of American rugged individualism leading to our focus on stroke play vs. the more traditional match play.  

American frontierism was bent on taming the land, whereas British Colonialism was focused on taming the people....thus stroke play vs. match play.  Sounds a little far-fetched to me, but not impossible to imagine....

[Dan Moore]

Anthony,

I understand there is some controversy or confusion about that claim.  Has it ever been confirmed that 18 holes were built there?  

I looked up the 1939 aerial of that site (now Downers Grove Golf Course; 9 holes) and there were 9 holes there in '39.  

[ANTHONYPIOPPI]

Dan,

George Bahto in "Evangelist of Golf" has the course going from 9 to 18 in the spring of 1893 and in July of that year the charter of the club was granted. In 1894 a piece of property in Wheaton was purchased and that is the current site of the course.

Anthony

[Dan Moore]

Yes and that is probably based on a statement from Spirit of St Andrews where Macdonald stated the Belmont course was expanded to 18 holes.  That statement has been caslled into question and there are doubts the Belmont site ever had 18 holes.  

[ANTHONYPIOPPI]

Dan,

Interesting. It sounds like the original 18 holes were on a very small parcel. As the skills of the players increased and the quality of the equipment was improved, I could see it going back to 9 holes. The first two 18-hole layouts at Newport CC were on what is now 2, 9-18 and the driving range.

Anthony

[ANTHONYPIOPPI]

Dan,

Just reached out and found out that official Chicago history has only 9 holes at Belmont location.

Anthony

[Adam Clayman]

Dan, In "The First 100 years of Chicago Golf" (not sure if thats the exact title?) the author cites the influence of the Columbian Exposition was that of bringing investors to Macdaddy, plus, world travellers already exposed to golf. Before that CBM was ridiculed by the Chicago proletariat.

[Bill Gayne]

A couple of historical points to add:

Colonial Williamsburg Foundation has early records of golf in Virginia that include:

1600s-1700s
Virginia death inventories from Northampton and Norfolk counties list “goff clubs, golfe sticks, balls” as items included in estates. Quantities in one Norfolk County inventory are large enough to suggest the deceased was a golf equipment retailer. In addition, it is likely that Scottish and Irish immigrants to the colonies brought their favorite recreation to the New World.

1774 –1776
The last British colonial governor, John Murray, the Earl of Dunmore, was a Scot. Informal records indicate he played or practiced golf on the grounds of the Governor’s Palace in Williamsburg.

Attached is a link from American Golfer for a photograph of invitation to a "Golf Club Ball" on December 20, 1811 given by the members of the Golf Club.

http://www.aafla.org/SportsLibrary/AmericanGolfer/1911/ag56c.pdf#xml=http://www.aafla.org:8080/verity_templates/jsp/search/xmlread.jsp?k2dockey=/mnt/docs/SportsLibrary/AmericanGolfer/1911/ag56c.pdf@aafla_pdf&serverSpec=localhost:9900&querytext=savannah

[TEPaul]

Barney:

There were plenty of golf courses in America before 1900. The only problem was there weren't any clubs and balls over here until around 1900 so for the first 20-30-40 years Americans just contented themselves to look at the courses and occasionally conduct steeplechase races across them.

By the way, Barn, congratulations for finally getting your hands on a book about golf course architecture. Don't let it go to your head now.

[TEPaul]

Barney:

It's probably a better question to ask why golf first began to migrate out of Scotland in force in the latter part of the 19th century.

If you ask me why it probably began to happen then was because that's when railroads began to blanket GB---and co-incidentally the USA at the same time.

Why did Donald Ross come over here instead of Old Tom Morris? That's a pretty interesting story. Both were at the gate at Heathrow vying for the last seat on the SST and they took Donald because security thought Old Tom with his beard looked too much like a Muslim Al Qaida terrorist.

[John Kavanaugh]

By the way, Barn, congratulations for finally getting your hands on a book about golf course architecture. Don't let it go to your head now.

I'm not sure if you understood me correctly but I gave that book away to some kid I had never met before I had a chance to accidently read it.  

[Jordan Wall]

By the way, Barn, congratulations for finally getting your hands on a book about golf course architecture. Don't let it go to your head now.

I'm not sure if you understood me correctly but I gave that book away to some kid I had never met before I had a chance to accidently read it.  

You said you gave it away through bombsquadgolf

Therefore, how do you know you gave it to a kid
Hell, it could have been anybody

nonetheless, Tom Paul is correct, congrats for even getting a golf architecture book

[TEPaul]

Well, then Barn, congratulations on getting your hands on a golf architecture book even if momentarily. One has to start somewhere and it's always a good question of why something finds someone when it does.

Small fates, my man----small fates.

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