[Willie_Dow]

While Tom MacWood is working over a number of those with that first nickname, I came upon a letter from John Adams, written in 1987 where he wrote about a picture of Willie Davis from an early issue of "Golfiana".  His comment about Davis was that "he was done out of his credit for Shinnecock Hills for so long".

Should there be some credit for what is at Shinnecock now, or was the White Cse, 12 1895, NLE attributed to Davis ever attached to what now exists ?

[wsmorrison]

Bill,

There were a lot of great Willies in golf.  Davis, Dunn, Dow (Scotland), Dow (MA), Park, Park, Jr., etc.

Willie Davis arrived in Southampton in 1891 and laid out the first 12 holes at Shinnecock Hills.  The holes were completed in a relatively short time and were fascinating examples of the geometric era.  Sometime later the course was becoming congested and a nine hole course, the Red Course was laid out for the ladies.  This is probably the origin of the color red for most forward tees.  After a short time, the two course concept was abandoned and a single 18-hole layout was put into play around 1893.  

Willie Dunn came to town in 1895 and did some redesign work, lengthening the course to over 5000 yards.

Five holes from the Dunn/Davis routing were on land to the West of the Clubhouse.  The 5th was near the site of the subsequent Macdonald 1st.  The 15th was near Macdonald's 12th.  The 17th near the site of Macdonald's 16th.  The 18th green might be on the site of the Macdonald 18th green.

Some remnants of the old holes to the east of Tuckahoe Road can still be seen among the short course built for children and newcomers to the sport.

Nothing of the original 12 holes exist today.  For that matter, there is essentially nothing existing from the Macdonald version of the course either.  Some confusion may lie in the fact that Flynn was instructed to redesign the course while keeping 18 holes in play at all times.  This led Flynn to build 12 new holes and then gradually phase out six of the existing ones with play shifted to other pre-existing holes while Flynn finished the complete remodeling.  While a few greens sit on the same site as Macdonald's greens, all the greens, tees and bunkering are Flynn.  The hole that is closest to the Macdonald version is the current 3rd, Macdonald's 13th.  The Flynn tee is to the left of the par 3 2nd green, Macdonald's tee was on the right side (the site of Macdonald's par 5 12th) near the forward tees but some of the bunker locations and the greensite are located on the same sites.  Flynn's green was larger than the Macdonald green (it is going to be expanded from its current size) and the bunkering far different in look and scale.

[wsmorrison]

Here is a photograph of the Davis look of Shinnecock Hills from 1894.  The Macdonald design was a substantial improvement over the Davis/Dunn design.



I'd say it is a good thing nothing remaining of their work is on the present 18-hole course.

[Willie_Dow]

'Sort of wish J. W. L. Adams was still around to contribute his wonderful thoughts from studies made by his research.  He would have enjoyed your comments on Shinnecock, Wayne.

[wsmorrison]

I am not familiar with J.W.L. Adams, Bill.  If you have any of his writings about Shinnecock, I'd love to borrow them for a bit.  What sorts of findings did his research produce?

[Willie_Dow]

It is time for MacWood to make a comment - re "Willie".  He introduced us to Adams, and he has the book.

[TEPaul]

Wayne:

I don't care how much anyone wants to deny it, that "Hell Bunker" at Shinnecock looks so much like a steeplechase obstacle it could be a steeplechase obstacle (water pit and berm jump) if they'd merely substitute water for the sand in front of that berm.

I don't think some of these guys who are denying that most all those old obstacle features in golf in that early era looked like a steeplechase obstacle because they simply don't know what steeplechase obstacles look like.

[Joe Hancock]

Wayne:

I don't care how much anyone wants to deny it, that "Hell Bunker" at Shinnecock looks so much like a steeplechase obstacle it could be a steeplechase obstacle (water pit and berm jump) if they'd merely substitute water for the sand in front of that berm.

I thought it was a horseshoe pit......

Joe

[TEPaul]

"I thought it was a horseshoe pit......

Joe:

Don't laugh, why would one think there needed to be some special design for a horsehoe pit?

Just think about it. You have the steeplechase obstacle right there, you have the horses, and you have, GUESS WHAT, HORSEHOES. Would it really surprise you that they just put a pin in one of those old steeplechase pits and threw horseshoes at it?  

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