[JakaB]

Paul,

In my jaded english I was asking if Chris knew why Kern got pissed and left the site...I don't know myself...its really too bad because he is a great guy and well respected in the area that I most frequent.

[Ginger_Beer]

Certainly not the greatest, but in context, Olympic has a great opening hole.  If the professional fails to make birdie, his confidence is shaken and he has a tough stretch ahead to play.  Conversely, if the average player hits three good shots, he/she has a realistic chance at birdie.  This gives the player a boost of confidence with which to attack the difficult holes ahead.

[Mike Benham]

How is Spyglass not even mentioned.  A solid long par five that is not particularly easy to reach.  Some do not favour a par five opener (especially pro's), but this had to be one of the best long holes that RTJ did.

What is wrong with Pasa's first hole?  Not mind-blowing, but a solid opener.

I'm with Ben, Spyglass' first is a true 3-shot par 5 at over 600 yards into the wind, you usually think birdy on par 5 but with this one a 5 is a good opening score.

Pasa's #1 is not bad, trees line both sides of the fairway and an uphill second shot to a well bunkered green into the wind is not a gimmee ...
I know we have done these lists before, but courses that ease you into the round, are wonderful (as Redanman states), some great openers of that flavour are Cataraqui, Rosedale and Sagamore.

[Mike Benham]

I like Olympic too (of course, I am a member ...).  The first is your only realistic birdie hole until the 8th, and you don't have another par 5 until the 16th, so yeah, it can get you off on the right foot or put a damper on your round real quick ...

[Jeff_Banchero]

The best opening hole in my experience is Olympic No. 1.  At about 540 yards, it's not too long; it incorporates many of the design elements of the course; and on a clear day (there are many) you catch at glimpse of the breakers at Ocean Beach.  It plays easier than 2 through 6, but it's no pushover.  At the '98 Open, as I recall, the stroke average for No. 1 was higher than you would have thought.  Some of the pros were hitting high draws over the trees on the right of the fairway to the downhill slope 220 yards from the pin, but most second shots from there weren't close, because of the small size and slope of the green.  The bunkers some 30 yards in front of the green are in certainly in play for long second shots and otherwise frame the landing area visually for an second-shot iron.

[Phil T]

The first at Shinnecock is my favorite.  Bite off what you can chew and stare at the rest of the course to the right....

[3-Putt]

#1 at Quaker Ridge.  Sets the tone early...

[Jeff Fortson]

Mine is a tie....

#1 Shinnecock - for its inviting views and angled fairway to allow you to cut as much off it as you want.

#1 Old Course - History, R&A Clubhouse behind you, 18th green to the left of you, ampitheatre feel with buildings and people, Road Hole in the distance, Swilican Burn, and that turn to the right in the routing of the course in the distance that is hiding the courses secret pleasures.

Basically Shinnecock would be your dream woman totally undressed waiting for you and the Old Course is your dream woman in a revealing outfit that slowly undresses in front of you.

Jeff F.

[stevencollins]

Hi everyone,

I'm new to this wonderful site and I freely admit that I discovered it because of the article in Sports Illustrated.  Sorry if that offends anyone with me intruding on your "turf."

I'm kind of intimidated because most of you have played courses I only dream of.  I think the most I've ever paid for 18 holes is 55 bucks, so that tells you something.

What I'm most fascinated by this post, however, is that no one has mentioned the preferred #1 hole of what I have understood to be the inspiration of this web site:  The World Atlas of Golf.  I'm looking at my old and tattered copy here (the first edition) and the hole they have listed as the best #1 hole is no. 1 at Sandwich.  Here is what they write about this hole:

"The paramount requirement for an opening hole is that it should enable play to flow from the outset--that golfers should not be delayed waiting for a green to clear, as on a par-five within range of two shots.  It should also whet the golfer's appetite for the test ahead, a mission more easily accomplished should its prospect be instatly appealing.  To stand on the tee on a summer morning, with the breeze fresh from the sea and the larks in full voice--as they always seem to be at Sandwich--and look down the crumpled spread of fairway, would make any golfer rejoice.  The drive is not demanding, but the stance for the second shot, usually a medium iron, may be uneven in the classic links fashion.  A cross-bunker, steeply faced and cut deep into a gentle upslope, protects the approaches to a green that falls awy from the striker, although the bold shot is not unduly punished.  Any golfer still in need of encouragement will delight in the trueness of the green."

Now, the closest I've been to England is probably LaGuardia airport, so I have no freaking clue about this assessment.  But it seems some of you have probably played this course.  Is number one at Sandwich a great opening hole?  Or has technology and time (and new courses) weakened it (I remember that the WAoG was first written in 1976 in the era of wood woods and stiff irons)?  

I would love to read your comments, and I am thrilled to have found this site.

steve

[Herb_Flood]

I already mentioned #1 at Crystal Downs and I also love the 1st at Southern Hills. As for NGLA and Prestwick? Come on guys...those are great openers if you like to hit 5-irons to begin your round: I just don't like to begin with 5-irons. Furthermore, I'll bet you like North Berwick too!

NGLA, Prestwick, and NB are very far from "the greatest opening holes in the world."

[Patrick_Mucci]

Herb Flood,

Only the timid hit 5 irons, and if they do, the longer approach into that green is a blind nightmare.

Even Tiger hit his driver on that hole.

[mike_beene]

Herb:I'll defend my Prestwick choice,not that it needs it!I love N Berwick,but not its opening hole,which starts with no atmosphere and doesn't tie well to the green.Prestwick has a beautiful stage with the clubhouse behind you,a tee full of players and caddies waiting,the back nine to your left and OB right.Whan it affects how you feel on the tee,the setting is part of the analysis.With no range,that is the scarriest opening shot I know ,which adds to the fun.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mike,

I agree, Prestwick is no pushover, especially if a speeding train shoots by in your backswing, and every passenger is set to evaluate your shot, and you know it.

Merion has the same amphitheater setting, patrons staring and evaluating your swing and tee shot results.

[A_Clay_Man]

Stevencollins- Welcome and if anyone is offended, way to go!

I don't think the administrator would've agreed to the interview if "new Blood" wasn't encouraged.

As for this thread, it is becoming painfully obvious that the greatest opening hole is the one we are on next or most. As long as it has the attributes that the description of Sandwich spelled out. Prepares you, inspires you and moves you out.

You will find that with an opine in one directon, there will be at least one, in another. So, speak your opinion and try to figure out where you have a bias and whether that bias is worthy of a thousnad words back and forth with your fellow fanatic.

[Ron Kern (Guest)]

Chris,

On a side note did Kern ever tell you why he got so pissed and quit coming to this site.

I found a computer that I could use (my dinosaur crashes each time I try to acces GCA) and checked out GCA, so I thought I'd clear this up ->

I never did get pissed off and leave the site - pissed off a few times maybe when leaving the site.

We had a lot of difficulty with contractors and after two of them were dismissed, we ended up finishing it in house.  I floated out the greens myself and painted each bunker line among a million otherthings during construction.  I was there no less than twice a week, sometimes five days a week during construction.

The owners are good friends of mine and I still have an excellent relationship with them.  I play the course and hit balls at the range regularly.  We are continually looking for ways to improve the course.  It is in great shape!

What may have been misconstrued about me leaving is that I did get very ill near the end of construction and was actually quite ill during the last year of the construction and was gone for a short period of time.

The first hole is a nice simple dogleg left, three iron - wedge starter.  Many players are now opting to go for the green off the tee, which is supposed to be an option.  It does have the widest fairway on the course.  Easing a player into a round on the first hole is a good idea, I think.  Also, I built the green up about eight feet so the player has an excellent 360 degree panorama of the course while waiting to putt.

And for the last time, the very back tee on the 13th was not my idea.

From the looks of things, GCA is pretty much status quo.


Ron Kern
ASGCA  (tho't I'd throw that in for old time's sake.)
 

[Jim_H]

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the First at Cypress Point.  Par 4--over the hedge and road--Cypress trees on the left and in the center-right of the fairway.  A good tee shot carries them, but they are certainly in play.  A 3-6 iron second to a beautiful green with a dune on the left (very nice now that the ice plant has been removed) and a bunker and trees on the right.  Very tough hole--maybe too tough to be the best, but certainly very good.

As to Don January, I've heard him say that it is impossible to stand too close to the ball.  He even says that he used to putt with a putter with a flat back/heel that he would pass under the toe of his right shoe on the backstroke.  Maybe hyperbole, but he believed it.

[Ken_Cotner]

I found a computer that I could use (my dinosaur crashes each time I try to acces GCA) and checked out GCA, so I thought I'd clear this up ->

I never did get pissed off and leave the site - pissed off a few times maybe when leaving the site.

Ron, if I may be so bold as to put words in JakaB's keyboard, I think he was asking why you hadn't been spotted on the GCA website lately; not why you "left" a course site.  Sounds like your computer may have been stuck in the pits.

Sorry to hear about your illness, and I hope you are past it.  It's always good to see your thoughts on here, so sift the GCA.com wheat from the chaff and jump in occasionally.

I hope to get back to Indy soon and get up to Purgatory.

Ken Cotner
Go Greyhounds...

[golflaw]

For what it's worth - it may not be the greatest opening hole in the world, but it has the most daunting and intimidating first drive of any course that I have played - Secession Golf Club near Beaufort, South Carolina.
                                                    Vic

[Ricster]

Jenna Jamison?

[TEPaul]

Vic F:

It's nice to know that Secession is the most daunting opening tee shot in golf but would you care to give us some hint as to why?

Until you do I'm visualizing a tee box surrounded by a pit that extents about 200yds out from the tee which is inhabited by millions of snakes crawling all over each other sort of like those Harrison Ford movies where he wears the fedora.

Am I remotely close?

[Ron Kern (Guest)]

Ron, if I may be so bold as to put words in JakaB's keyboard, I think he was asking why you hadn't been spotted on the GCA website lately; not why you "left" a course site.  Sounds like your computer may have been stuck in the pits.

I hope to get back to Indy soon and get up to Purgatory.

Ken Cotner
Go Greyhounds...

Ken:

Thanks for the clarification.  I'm hoping to get a new computer (Mac powerbook) soon so I will be able to access GCA more frequently.  I'm still using an old Mac Performa that has about as much memory as my digital alarm clock.

As for the 'Hounds, I sure wish they would take advantage of all the world class athletic facilities that our tax dollars have bought and come up with a competetive team.

It appears that fall is coming to Indiana this week so I'm off to Purgatory for an afternoon round while the air is still warm.

More on topic:

This is very cliche but I believe it to be true, especially after this year -

The best opening hole in the world is the first hole of the round
one is about to play.

Totally off topic:

We justhad the "Grand Opening" of Spring Hills Gol Course in Hanover, Indiana.  5,900yards from the tips - no, not enough room to lengthen it for the US Open.  We all but had the donkeys moving dirt on this project - never had a six way blade on the site.  It  is cute and quirky - a couple of the fairways need to be reworked as the dirt mover who had never been on a golf course in his life (shaper??) got carried away with his artistic license on 14 fairway after I had left one day and the owner wouldn't let us shoot any rock on 16 fairway.  Rock is only 2'-3' below the surface in many areas.  Hopefully these will be adjusted soon.

Here's a couple of snaps from this spring:



 

[Michael_Choate]

The Old Course.  All the room in the world, but how emabarrassing to miss right or left ( ask Ian Baker-Finch).  Also. failing to take the pin position and the wind into account can lead to certain bogey, if not worse.  Plus, no course can match the tradition and setting.

[Michael_Choate]

The Old Course.  All the room in the world, but how emabarrassing to miss right or left ( ask Ian Baker-Finch).  Also. failing to take the pin position and the wind into account can lead to certain bogey, if not worse.  Plus, no course can match the tradition and setting.

[Ken_Cotner]

Ron,

I'd love to hear more about Hanover -- why don't you start a little thread on it?  I'm sure many would find interest in a new (redesign or brand new?) 5,900 yard course!

Those two photos look interesting (except for the power lines).

And to get back off-topic:  hard to imagine the Greyhounds struggling in ANY sport from what I heard in past years.  My sport was cross-country and I know they are still strong there.  As for those facilities...well, I visited last fall for the first time in 20 years and was flabbergasted.  It was a little unsettling to me when I thought about where else the $$ could have been spent.

Have fun this afternoon, I'm jealous!

Ken

[clong]

I can't believe that the first at Muirfield hasn't been nominated.  What a great hole to introduce the player to what will be required of him-Driver, long to middle irons, accuracy, etc.  And then when you come back out for the afternoon round after the obligate two scotches and half bottle of red wine.

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