[Mike Hoak]

In their section entitled "Ten to Watch" they list the following:
Erin Hills
Sunday River
Marquette (Greywalls)
Red Tail
The Tribute
Coral Canyon
Circling Raven
Apache Stronghold (mentions "conditioning woes")
Farm Neck
Atlantic City Country Club.

[John Kavanaugh]

Is there any mention of the new criteria Joe said he was going to implement in 2006..

[Craig Van Egmond]

Looks like Pete Dye is doing well on the public side with 7 of the top 30 courses.

Throw in a couple of former Dye employees at your up to at least 11 of the top 30. (3 C&C, 1 Doak)

Not bad for an insurance agent.  

[John Kavanaugh]

Looks like Pete Dye is doing well on the public side with 7 of the top 30 courses.

Throw in a couple of former Dye employees at your up to at least 11 of the top 30. (3 C&C, 1 Doak)

Not bad for an insurance agent.  

Or a guy on the panel..Here is a rater quandry...All raters should always pay...Pete Dye should never pay...what to do, what to do..

[John Foley]

I'd hate to have to foot the bill to play all of those courses. Is it the Top 100 Public courses or the most expensive 100 Public Courses. That would be a great excersize, what's the most expensive public course not on that list?? Thier marketing director will have some explaining to do!!

Pretty suprised there is no love for Newport National, Tobacco Road or Barona??

As for the 3rd ranked course, IMHO it's too low!!!

[Craig Van Egmond]

Mike,

You can only play the Crosswater at Sunriver by staying at one of the lodges on the property, so the general public cannot just walk up to pay and play. Does that still count?

I too am surprised by the omission of Tobacco Road and Barona.

[Jerry Kluger]

Let me say this - until you've made the trip to Gothenburg and played Wild Horse you haven't played public golf.  You have this stupid grin on your face as you realize that you paid $45 to play one of the most fun courses you have ever seen.  To me it is the best value I have played in public golf and you don't have to sleep in your car to get a tee time.

[Adam Clayman]

For those staunch defenders of Chicago golf, this list says it all.

From what I can tell, there's only the one.

Since i'm not up to date on the likes of a "Dancing Rabbit", I don't know what state it's in. If there's another course on this list from the Chicago area, my point will still hold.

Now, if we can get it up to 3%, I may retract.

[Phil McDade]

No Lawsonia; let the recriminations begin!

I do think it's worthwhile to establish something of an "affordable" list of public-access courses (knowing full well that affordable means something different to Upper West Side Manhattanites than it does to someone in, say, Wisconsin...). I'd put it somewhere in the neighborhood of $50-75.

P.S. I don't question the market setting Pinehurt's or Pebble Beach's rate at whatever it is these days, but as one who agrees with TEPaul's Big World theory of golf, I think there's value in establishing a list of affordable public courses. After all, there is a bunch of great golf architecture out there that can be played for lower than triple-digit figures. They are obviously not as well known as Pebble, Pinehurst or Kiawah, but they ought to be promoted in some fashion.

P.P.S. I recently played Lawsonia (midweek, non-twilight) at the height of the summer season for less than $40 walking. Now that's pretty good value.

[Mike Hendren]

Since i'm not up to date on the likes of a "Dancing Rabbit", I don't know what state it's in.

That's okay Adam.  I doubt many people in Mississippi have heard of Ballyneal.

Craig,

Stay + Play = Public

Mike

[Rick Shefchik]

Lawsonia is 10 times the golf course Deacon's Lodge is. This list is a marketing exercise, not a reflection of overall quality.

The Wilderness at Fortune Bay (another Minnesota course, less than 100 miles from Deacon's Lodge, but miles better) is another glaring omission.

[Andy Scanlon]

Bandon now lays claim to almost 1/3 of the top ten public courses (according to Golf Magazine).  That's a fantastic achievement.  Kudos Mike Keiser et al.

A remarkable achievement.  A hearty congratulations to all involved with Bandon!

[tlavin]

For those staunch defenders of Chicago golf, this list says it all.

From what I can tell, there's only the one.

Since i'm not up to date on the likes of a "Dancing Rabbit", I don't know what state it's in. If there's another course on this list from the Chicago area, my point will still hold.

Now, if we can get it up to 3%, I may retract.

What an anti-Chicagite!  To tell you the truth, I don't know that I disagree with the omission of any Chicago golf courses from that list.  We have precious few public golf courses that can compete with the depth of the private clubs.  Cog Hill is on that list, like it is on any list.  Personally, I think Cog Hill is overrated at the position it occupies, but we'd be shut out without its presence, so I'll hit the mute button.  As for other possible entrants, I would only nominate Pine Meadow.  That could be on the list.

So if you want to lift your geographic leg and squirt on public golf in Chi-town, have at it.  In terms of private clubs, we have at least a dozen top-notch places to play and an equal number of second tier gems.

[Bill_McBride]

A couple of observations:

I'm very glad to see Pasatiempo moving up to such a lofty spot.  Ditto for Cuscowilla and Black Mesa.  Where is Talking Stick North?

Like others, I would love to see a Top 100 under $50.

Bandon is an expensive trip, but not when compared to Pebble or Pinehurst.

One further thought:  could we collectively give the rater controversy a two week sabbatical?  It is tired and badly needs a vacation.       Disclaimer:  I am not, have never been, and don't want to be a rater.    

[Mark Bourgeois]

Congratulations to Jeff Brauer and Jim Engh!

[Greg Tallman]

I have many friends that are raters, I hope I don't lose any by this post.

I cannot for the life of me understand why a private club, with no need to raise money for improvements or to assist their members in lowering costs, would want to have their course rated or ranked.

A commercial enterprise yes, but an old line club, no.

I could care less if my club was ranked number one or a thousand and one.

To grant access and freebies to the over one thousand raters of the three major golf periodicals, whose commercial success is tied into this service does grate on this writer.

When my children visit, if I want them to play at a discounted rate we wait until the afternoon. For some reason raters play for free. I find this unacceptable.

Am I being a curmudgeon?

Bob

The short answer is EGO. Bragging to one's friend about jumping his club in the ratings... priceless.

I can attest that of these 1000+ raters the manner in which each approach their assignment can be at complete opposite ends of the spectrum. There are those who you never know they were there until after the round when they come in and discuss the course and freely share their thoughts and those that request reservaitons months in advance and consideration for their position on panel X. Not saying either or is right or wrong but little or no uniformity to the process which, honestly, is probably best.

For the gentlemen who implied Pinehurst #2 at No. 6 on the list is too high please elaborate. In your elaboration please provide a single example of a golf course that can accommodate 200+ average players per day without beating them up and at the same time, with minimal preparations, provide one of the sternest tests for today's rouring professional. in my book that constitutes a great course. Just one guy's opinion.
 

[Dan_Callahan]

I haven't played Lake of Isles, but from the reports I've received from numerous friends who have played it, there's no way it should be ranked ahead of Newport National.

Another course I haven't played is Sunday River. I'm going to try to get up there in the fall. I've been told that it is better than Sugarloaf.

I am a big fan of Taconic, but I think its ranking has more to do with pedigree than design. I wouldn't place it in the top 50, and I prefer Crumpin-Fox, Red Tail and Newport National among New England courses. Heresy, I know.

[Scott_Burroughs]

In their section entitled "Ten to Watch" they list the following:

The Tribute

What course is this?  Are they talking about the C&C course near Bend, OR, which doesn't open until at least 2007?

[Mike Hoak]

In their section entitled "Ten to Watch" they list the following:

The Tribute

What course is this?  Are they talking about the C&C course near Bend, OR, which doesn't open until at least 2007?

It's location is listed as The Colony, Texas.  The brief description says that it's a six year old links style course designed by Tripp Davis.

[Tom Huckaby]

Interesting list.  I haven't gotten my magazine yet -do they say HOW these rankings were arrived at?  Is it same Golf Mag panel as always, same criteria?  

Just curious.

As for PD being better than PB, well... it's close enough so that no huge argument can be made either way.  Hats off to the Bandon folks as this is one hell of an honor.  And yes, make your tee-times NOW.  If 2007 wasn't already fully-booked (and last we checked it was damn close) it will be once this gets out and is more widespread.

It will also be very interesting to watch how the prices go up there... might not they start charging a premium for PD?  We shall see....

As for Mr. Huntley's lament - no, you are not being a curmudgeon at all, Bob.  Just understand that most "old-line" clubs don't kow-tow to and comp raters, because they don't need to, don't give a hoot - and that's how it should be.  Yours just did for a little while because someone there apparently decided they did care to see how the Shore re-do stacked up.  Now that that course is no longer "new", this is no longer an issue.  The club will be quite justified to tell raters to take a hike.

Just don't do such to us NCGA raters, OK?  You do want course rating and slope still.

 

[Scott_Burroughs]

Thanks, Mike.  

 

Oh, my fading memory!  The Tribute was an AOTD, #156.  

I guess I 'assumed' the list of courses to watch were 'new' (or newly public) courses, with AS being given 'new' life with better conditions.

[Wayne_Kozun]

Public is public...  If anyone can walk up and plunk down the coin and play the course (providing they are property dressed  !), then it's a public course.  Last I checked we're still dealing with a free-market system where prices are set by demand.  

By that measure if Pebble has no available tee times (which generally is the case) then it is setting the price too low as demand>supply.  Scotsman Adam Smith would nae be happy

[Wayne_Kozun]

I cannot for the life of me understand why a private club, with no need to raise money for improvements or to assist their members in lowering costs, would want to have their course rated or ranked.

You could argue that clubs that have equity memberships would have a duty to maximize the value of the share price and presumably increasing the club's rank will increase the value of the share price.

[Bob_Huntley]

Wayne,

That is all very well if your membership is trolling for new members, we are not. We have a waiting list of some four to five years. In fact the Board has not increased the inititiation fee for something like seven years , much to the chagrin of some members.

Bob

[Anthony Butler]

Any...

 Wild Horse?

Black Mesa?

Paa-Ko?

Cory, Don't bother trying to joust with the PC police Hammy. His family, no doubt, came over on the Mayflpwer, and are absolved of any wrong doing. Especially in public.

I was under the impression that Hamilton and his ilk did all their wrong doing in private... and then rang their lawyer for advice before the help summoned the cops.

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