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Mike Hoak

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Golf Magazine Top 100 Public
« on: August 15, 2006, 07:19:16 PM »
My new issue of Golf Magazine arrived in the mail today.  Pacific Dunes took over the top spot.  Here is the top 20 and their previous position.

1. Pacific Dunes (2)
2. Pebble Beach (1)
3. Kiawah Ocean (8)
4. Whistling Straits (5)
5. Bandon Dunes (7)
6. Pinehurst #2 (4)
7. Bethpage Black (3)
8. Shadow Creek (11)
9. Spyglass (10)
10. Bandon Trails
11. Sawgrass (6)
12. Pasatiempo (15)
13. Blackwolf Run (12)
14. Kapalua (14)
15. Harbour Town (19)
16. Sea Island Seaside (17)
17. World Woods Pine Barrens (9)
18. Cascades (23)
19. Cuscowilla (22)
20. Princeville (20)

Other notable new entries

83. Rustic Canyon
93. Beechtree

Overall, there were 20 new entries to the list.
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APBernstein

Re:Golf Magazine Top 100 Public
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2006, 07:40:06 PM »
There must be a mistake in your post.  I could've sworn I saw Pinehurst #2 in the six spot, which can't be right.  Please correct this error, Mike.   ;)
« Last Edit: August 15, 2006, 07:55:32 PM by Andrew Bernstein »
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Sean Leary

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Re:Golf Magazine Top 100 Public
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2006, 07:46:52 PM »
Never thought I'd see something ever overtake Pebble on this list. Congrats to Mike Keiser and Tom Doak.
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Mike Hoak

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Re:Golf Magazine Top 100 Public
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2006, 07:56:18 PM »
Bandon now lays claim to almost 1/3 of the top ten public courses (according to Golf Magazine).  That's a fantastic achievement.  Kudos Mike Keiser et al.
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Cory Lewis

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Re:Golf Magazine Top 100 Public
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2006, 07:56:40 PM »
It's great to see my former employer, Beechtree, back in the top 100, it's quite an accomplishment when you consider they don't comp, or seek out raters, it's simply a great golf course with a low key setting, and I'm glad to see it getting some recognition.
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Jin Kim

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Re:Golf Magazine Top 100 Public
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2006, 07:56:40 PM »
In my opinion, it's not even close which is the better course.  Congrats to Tom and Mike.
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HamiltonBHearst

Re:Golf Magazine Top 100 Public
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2006, 08:31:09 PM »


Cory Lewis

What does it matter that Beechtree does not comp raters?  Are you implying something here?  All the esteemed raters that so this wondeful public service are going to be upset about that one.
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Mike_Young

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Re:Golf Magazine Top 100 Public
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2006, 08:36:05 PM »
Seems convenient that some courses claim Public when convenient and then Private at other times......ratings make one do strange things...
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Brad Tufts

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Re:Golf Magazine Top 100 Public
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2006, 08:40:49 PM »
It could be just me, but I think Cory's point was just to mention that Beechtree does not seek attention to better their place on any list....

I didn't see a need to jump on the rater angle... ::)

Raters, for good or for bad, contribute to these published lists that stimulate discussion....better in my opinion that discussing who should caddy for Michelle now...
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So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

Cory Lewis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Golf Magazine Top 100 Public
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2006, 08:44:33 PM »
Hammy,

I'm not implying anything and I resent the implication.  All I'm saying is that when you are in the shadow of a golf course that holds a major tournament that is on tv and you don't have a fraction of the advertising budget that they do, then it's hard to get people in the know, ie raters to see your golf course when they have all heard of the "other" course but not yours.  One way to make sure that these people see your course is to seek them out, or hold a "welcoming" day, like I know other courses do, in order to give your course the best chance of being recognized.  Beechtree chose not to do that and rather to just be themselves.  Remember that they were on the list in 2002, and then fell out in 2004.  

I think when you see the word rater you jump to conclusions, you don't know me and you don't have any right to say anything like that to me, and if you did want to say something like that to me, IM me, don't do it on the board.  
« Last Edit: August 15, 2006, 08:45:23 PM by Cory Lewis »
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Bob_Huntley

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Re:Golf Magazine Top 100 Public
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2006, 10:42:53 PM »
I have many friends that are raters, I hope I don't lose any by this post.

I cannot for the life of me understand why a private club, with no need to raise money for improvements or to assist their members in lowering costs, would want to have their course rated or ranked.

A commercial enterprise yes, but an old line club, no.

I could care less if my club was ranked number one or a thousand and one.

To grant access and freebies to the over one thousand raters of the three major golf periodicals, whose commercial success is tied into this service does grate on this writer.

When my children visit, if I want them to play at a discounted rate we wait until the afternoon. For some reason raters play for free. I find this unacceptable.

Am I being a curmudgeon?

Bob
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michael j fay

Re:Golf Magazine Top 100 Public
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2006, 10:53:51 PM »
Loking at that list I would say that we are talking an extremely wealthy public.

Perhaps someone should create a list of great courses that are actually affordable to the public.

What are the prices in Bandon?

To play # 2 the public has tp stay 2 nights at the Carolina, be on a golf package and pay a surcharge and a caddie. Depending on the season, the cost can run well over $ 1,000.00. Not the public I conjure up in my mind.
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Adam Clayman

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Re:Golf Magazine Top 100 Public
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2006, 11:06:31 PM »
Any...

 Wild Horse?

Black Mesa?

Paa-Ko?

Cory, Don't bother trying to joust with the PC police Hammy. His family, no doubt, came over on the Mayflpwer, and are absolved of any wrong doing. Especially in public.
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"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Jason Blasberg

Re:Golf Magazine Top 100 Public
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2006, 11:50:18 PM »
Quote from: Sean Leary on August 15, 2006, 07:46:52 PM
Never thought I'd see something ever overtake Pebble on this list. Congrats to Mike Keiser and Tom Doak.

The idea that Pebble is a "Public" course is a farse.  Moreover, when the 19th course on the list is better than the 3rd course on the list there are issues that need to be worked out.  I admire the effort but the process obviously needs work.
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Jason Blasberg

Re:Golf Magazine Top 100 Public
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2006, 11:56:26 PM »
Quote from: Mike_Young on August 15, 2006, 08:36:05 PM
Seems convenient that some courses claim Public when convenient and then Private at other times......ratings make one do strange things...

Mike:


Please be more specific . . .

Jason  
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Tim Bert

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Re:Golf Magazine Top 100 Public
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2006, 01:47:28 AM »
Ratings don't mean much in the greater scheme of things, but this is pretty big news.  I'll just have to start booking even further in advance now.

Congrats to Mike and to Tom!  Wow!
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Rick Shefchik

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Re:Golf Magazine Top 100 Public
« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2006, 02:15:43 AM »
Quote from: Bob_Huntley on August 15, 2006, 10:42:53 PM

When my children visit, if I want them to play at a discounted rate we wait until the afternoon. For some reason raters play for free. I find this unacceptable.

Am I being a curmudgeon?

Bob

Bob:

No.
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"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Michael Dugger

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Re:Golf Magazine Top 100 Public
« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2006, 03:30:14 AM »
Quote from: Adam Clayman on August 15, 2006, 11:06:31 PM


Cory, Don't bother trying to joust with the PC police Hammy. His family, no doubt, came over on the Mayflpwer, and are absolved of any wrong doing. Especially in public.

LMAO :o
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What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Craig Van Egmond

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Re:Golf Magazine Top 100 Public
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2006, 07:58:21 AM »

Only 1 course in the top 20 appears to be under $100.00... Bethpage Black. A wealthy public indeed.  I wonder what the average green fee is for these courses.
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Mike Hendren

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Re:Golf Magazine Top 100 Public
« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2006, 09:12:10 AM »
It is a bit presumptuous to state that "the public" does not have the financial means to pay $350+ for a round of golf at, for example, Pebble Beach or Pinehurst #2.  Check the tee sheets and you'll find WE do it all the time, albeit frequently on the corporate dole.  

"The public" is not the proletariat.  It's us.

If you can pay to play, it's public, period.  

Mike
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Mike Vegis @ Kiawah

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Re:Golf Magazine Top 100 Public
« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2006, 09:16:13 AM »
Public is public...  If anyone can walk up and plunk down the coin and play the course (providing they are property dressed  8)!), then it's a public course.  Last I checked we're still dealing with a free-market system where prices are set by demand.  
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Mike Vegis @ Kiawah

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Re:Golf Magazine Top 100 Public
« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2006, 09:22:33 AM »
Quote from: Jason Blasberg on August 15, 2006, 11:50:18 PM

Moreover, when the 19th course on the list is better than the 3rd course on the list there are issues that need to be worked out.  I admire the effort but the process obviously needs work.


More than a few would disagree with your assessment of the 3rd course!!! :o :o :o
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Eric Olsen

Re:Golf Magazine Top 100 Public
« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2006, 09:23:17 AM »
I am curious how long Bandon Trails will remain that highly ranked.  Any thoughts?  
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Mike Hoak

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Golf Magazine Top 100 Public
« Reply #23 on: August 16, 2006, 09:26:35 AM »
Here are the top 50:

1. Pacific Dunes (2)
2. Pebble Beach (1)
3. Kiawah Ocean (8)
4. Whistling Straits (5)
5. Bandon Dunes (7)
6. Pinehurst #2 (4)
7. Bethpage Black (3)
8. Shadow Creek (11)
9. Spyglass (10)
10. Bandon Trails
11. Sawgrass (6)
12. Pasatiempo (15)
13. Blackwolf Run (12)
14. Kapalua (14)
15. Harbour Town (19)
16. Sea Island Seaside (17)
17. World Woods Pine Barrens (9)
18. Cascades (23)
19. Cuscowilla (22)
20. Princeville (20)
21. Troon North (21)
22. Cog Hill (18)
23. Mauna Kea (24)
24. Red Sky Ranch (25)
25. Caledonia (26)
26. Bulle Rock (26)
27. Arcadia Bluffs (41)
28. Taconic (30)
29. PGA West (29)
30. Paa-Ko Ridge (43)
31. Bay Harbor (27)
32. Dancing Rabbit (34)
33. Challenge at Manele (16)
34. Crosswater at Sunriver (52)
35. Black Mesa Golf Club (47)
36. We-Ko-Pa Golf Club (38)
37. Pumpkin Ridge Ghost Creek (44)
38. Trump LA
39. Cascata (32)
40. Linville Golf Club (37)
41. Torrey Pines South (13)
42. Spanish Bay (46)
43. Reynolds Plantation--Great Waters (51)
44. Bay Hill (33)
45. Pine Needles (40)
46. Dunes Club (47)
47. Longaberger (39)
48. Golden Horseshoe Gold (45)
49. Wynn Las Vegas
50. Wild Horse (54)
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Mike Hoak

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Golf Magazine Top 100 Public
« Reply #24 on: August 16, 2006, 09:38:17 AM »
Bottom 50

51. Karsten Creek (42)
52. Greenbrier (48)
53. May River at Palmetto Bluff
54. Reflection Bay (36)
55. Harvester
56. Quarry at Giants Ridge
57. Coeur d'Alene (53)
58. Wolf Creek (55)
59. Troon North Pinnacle (64)
60. Reynolds Plantation Oconee (67)
61. Atunyote at Turning Stone
62. Hawktree
63. General at Eagle Rdige (60)
64. Shenandoah at Turning Stone
65. Glen Club (65)
66. CordeValle
67. Pine Hill (31)
68. Barton Creek Foothills (62)
69. Barton Creek Canyons (58
70. Grand National (57)
71. La Quinta Mountain (73)
72. Pinehills
73. WeaverRidge
74. Branson Creek (69)
75. Whistling Straits Itish (68)
76. Deacon's Lodge (75)
77. Belgrade Lakes (77)
78. Ocean Hammock (79)
79. Lighthouse Sound (80)
80. Lakota Canyon Ranch
81. Broadmoor East (93)
82. Capitol Hill Judge (83)
83. Rustic Canyon
84. Old Works
85. Cambrian Ridge (81)
86. DarkHorse (85)
87. Grayhawk Talon (88)
88. Westin Innisbrook Copperhead (98)
89. Boulders Club South (99)
90. Grand Bear
91. Sugarloaf (66)
92. Lakewood Shores Gailes (92)
93. Beechtree
94. Forest Dunes (94)
95. Barefoot--Love
96. St. Ives Resort (86)
97. Lake of Isles North
98. Doral Blue (76)
99. Pinehuest No. 8 (87)
100. Gold Mountain Golf Complex
« Last Edit: August 16, 2006, 09:38:59 AM by Mike Hoak »
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