News:

This discussion group is best enjoyed using Google Chrome, Firefox or Safari.


Kyle Harris

Woodway Country Club (Willie Park, Jr.)
« on: July 01, 2006, 01:41:19 PM »
Two weeks ago I had the distinct pleasure of joining host Jim Keever for a round at his home course: Woodway Country Club.

Woodway is a course of which Willie Park seemed quite fond, as his and other testimonials of the design would pop up in Park's later advertising. Through there years (and a clubhouse relocation) numerous changes have taken hold, but the existing Willie Park, Jr. holes are remarkably well-preserved and some of his best I've seen to date.

We'll start at the 4th hole, with the tee shot needing to carry the ridge line to offer both a sight and good lie for the approach into the green. The futher right, the longer the carry and the more likelihood of a ball being rejected short and right by the ridge. Notice how the flag peeks just over the ridge, tempting the golf to take the shot too far right off the tee.



The 4th green is a prototypical Willie Park green with many quadrants and ridges confounding long lag putts. Hole locations and angles abound! The movement in this green in particular indicates the amount of priority that Park places on defending par around the green and any criticism of Park's lack of variety from tee to green is more than made up in his interesting angles and contour near the greensite.



The very-Flynn like reverse camber 6th hole stands out on the first nine. The bunker is carryable, however, the fairway will still funnel the ball to the bottom of the hill.



Carrying the bunker will leave this look at the flag/green. The plight of tree overhanging is seen and some selective limbing and tree removal is in order.



Another stand out hole follows at the 7th. The pictures really speak for themselves.

The tee shot:


The green:


The landing area, looking back from the green (any criticism of Park's tee to green banality ends with this picture):


The short par 4 13th is a prime example of the confluence of angles Park presents in his par 4s. The monster bunker tends to push play out to the left, but the thick rough and confounding fairway bunkers hamper this tee shot. A textbook strategic/penal short par 4 example.


I am beginning to think that par 5s on par 70 layouts contain much more interest than trying to force an extra shot or two our of an otherwise fine layout. The 5th and 14th at Woodway are two items on an ever-growing list of evidence to this effect.

The 14th, in particular, demonstrates Park's innate ability to us natural land movement to add interest to the second shot of a three-shot par 5. With the exception of Huntingdon Valley CC's 7th and 15th, I've yet to really see two three-shot par 5s truly demand execution on all three shots as those at Woodway.

From about 260 out on 14 at Woodway.


Before the relocation of the clubhouse in the mid-90s, the current 16th served as the opener. One of the wider holes at Woodway that narrows significantly around the green. For a long par 4, this hole was one heckuva opener.






Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Woodway Country Club (Willie Park, Jr.)
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2006, 02:11:31 PM »
Kyle

How would you compare Woodway with the local Willie Park, Jr. at Philmont North? Similar? Different?

Steve
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Kyle Harris

Re:Woodway Country Club (Willie Park, Jr.)
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2006, 02:12:31 PM »
Kyle

How would you compare Woodway with the local Willie Park, Jr. at Philmont North? Similar? Different?

Steve

Wow Steve... didn't they teach you about leading the witness in law school?

 ;D

More on that in a bit.

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Woodway Country Club (Willie Park, Jr.)
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2006, 02:15:13 PM »
This is cross examination. Leading is permissible. ;D
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Kyle Harris

Re:Woodway Country Club (Willie Park, Jr.)
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2006, 02:17:32 PM »
This is cross examination. Leading is permissible. ;D

Touche, how about begging the question?  ;)

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Woodway Country Club (Willie Park, Jr.)
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2006, 02:29:32 PM »
Well...the "monster bunker" on the 13th hole at Woodway looks very familiar.
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Tim Gavrich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Woodway Country Club (Willie Park, Jr.)
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2006, 07:50:47 PM »
Have you played Shuttle Meadow, another Willie Park course, in Kensington, CT?  I've not played it, but I've walked it, and it had some downright wild greens.  Not long, but very interesting.
Senior Writer, GolfPass

Kyle Harris

Re:Woodway Country Club (Willie Park, Jr.)
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2006, 11:08:24 AM »
Have you played Shuttle Meadow, another Willie Park course, in Kensington, CT?  I've not played it, but I've walked it, and it had some downright wild greens.  Not long, but very interesting.

Tim,

It is on my list of courses I'd very much like to see. Park was personally involved with the design.

Do you know how well-preserved it is?

wsmorrison

Re:Woodway Country Club (Willie Park, Jr.)
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2006, 11:25:02 AM »
This looks like an excellent course and one that really does need to be visited.  Where is Woodway CC?  I like the way the tee boxes are separated in the first photo with a break in the dividing rough.

The bunker in the corner of the dogleg seems overly surrounded by rough.  I don't know the yardages involved, but if the rough on the green end of the bunker were brought closer to the bunker, would there be more temptation to try and carry the bunker or is it an easy carry regardless?

Kyle Harris

Re:Woodway Country Club (Willie Park, Jr.)
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2006, 11:28:16 AM »
Wayne,

Good eye as always. Hopefully Jim Keever chimes in with specifics, but that bunker exists mainly to keep balls from careening out of bounds. Any hint of a fade will shoot right, and a slice is in definite trouble.

However, I've yet to see a Park plan that has bunkers contained completely within rough (in fact, most of them are contained completely in fairway) so it is reasonable to say the bunker was either closer to the fairway or the fairway was out to the bunker.

Woodway CC is in Darien, CT (maybe 20 minutes from Winged Foot/Quaker Ridge up the Merritt Parkway).

Mike_Cirba

Re:Woodway Country Club (Willie Park, Jr.)
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2006, 12:18:25 PM »
I certainly get where Steve is going with his question.

I don't know about the rest of you folks, but I think the pictures of Woodway could definitely serve as circumstantial evidence that Willie Park Jr. is also the author of Philmont North.  Some very, very strong similarities, no question.

Really good stuff!

wsmorrison

Re:Woodway Country Club (Willie Park, Jr.)
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2006, 03:39:10 PM »
Mike,Steve, others:

I understand that there's an article by Bob Labbance in the recent Superintendent magazine that discusses Philmont.  My fax machine was out of ink so until a copy of the article is resent, I don't know the contents.  I'll call Bob after the holiday to see if there's anything new to report.  It should be an interesting Flynn Cup this year at Philmont.  I'm sure the topic will be brought up at the Flynn Invitational in September at Philadelphia Country Club.  We'll have to make sure no Philmontites try to sneak in  ;)

I agree that there are similarities between Philmont North and other courses I've seen (by photos only for full disclosure).  This is not proof of anything, as Mike says it is only circumstantial.  But fascinating to see more photos of other Park, Jr. courses.  These photos certainly don't scream that Philmont North cannot be Park but they don't prove anything either.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2006, 03:40:59 PM by Wayne Morrison »

Tim Gavrich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Woodway Country Club (Willie Park, Jr.)
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2006, 05:36:18 PM »
Kyle--
    I am not sure how well-preserved Shuttle Meadow is, but my guess would be that not a lot has been done to it over the years.  It probably hasn't really been lengthened, as it plays to a par 71 (34-37, I believe) at under 6400 yards.  However, any answer as to its authenticity would just be postulation.  It looks very nice though, and I hope to get the chance to play it at some point.
Senior Writer, GolfPass

Kenny Lee Puckett

Re:Woodway Country Club (Willie Park, Jr.)
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2006, 12:07:59 PM »
Many thanks for Kyle for taking the time to come and see our course.  The revealing pictures of Woodway were taken in overcast and flat light.  The true spendor of W.C.C. is best displayed in October when the surrounding trees are bursting with red, orange and yellow hues that distract the eye from the task at hand.

To answer some general questions and to provide some more information, below are some relevant information.

Woodway was incorporated on August 7, 1916 by eight men from Wee Burn C.C. who desired to play golf on an 18 hole course.  Wee Burn at that point in time was a 9 hole layout in the Noroton section of Darien, CT, and their membership voted at that time to continue with 9 holes in the current location according to The Darien Review newpaper.  The original WB clubhouse still stands today on the Boston Post Road/Route 1 in Darien.  Wee Burn subsequently commissioned an 18 hole layout by Deveraux Emmett at a new location off of Hollow Tree Ridge Road, less than 1 mile from Woodway.  Along with The Country Club of Darien, Wee Burn and Woodway have an annual interclub competion for The Darien Cup.

The eight men of Woodway purchased the Woodway Dairy farm off on Hoyt Street in Darien which included parcels in Stamford and New Canaan.  Among the founding eight were Theodore Hoyt and future U.S. Senator Schuyler Merritt.  The club is less than one mile from the Merritt Parkway off of exit 36 which was constructed in the mid-1930's.  The site was adjacent to the New Canaan branch of the New Haven, New York and Hartford Railroad which provided easy access from New York City.  The next step was to solicit architects.  Among the designers considered were:

C.B. Macdonald/Seth Raynor
Willie Park, Jr.
Donald Ross
A.W. Tillinghast

Park got the job with the goal of "Creating the best championship course within an hour of Manhattan."  Given America's entry into WWI, it must have been some task to be able to open the course for play on 6/30/1918.

Woodway still possesses 14 of the original Park greens and 17 of its originally routed holes.  The 1921 aerial shows a course largely devoid of trees with some wetlands.  Over the course of time, the wetlands were connected via streams and ponds, and the drainage has always been supurb due to the rich topsoil that was provided from the dairy farm.  The original routing had the clubhouse on top of a central hill that hosts two greens (#6 and # 10 in the current routing), but the clubhouse was never built there due to the WWI and the depression.  These two holes would have been strong finishers for each nine.  The Farmhouse by Hoyt Street served as the base of the clubhouse with various renovations and fire replacements until 2001.  Since then, trees have been planted and matured the course into a parkland setting.

Woodway entered the 21st century with a new clubhouse and a new hole that routes back to the club.  This new hole (#9) was originally modeled on the "Dispair" hole at Somerset Hills.  Other changes include a Cornish green to the right on the new 1st hole and the existing Park green was kept to form a "Y" configuration.  Thus, playing the Cornish green to the right is known as the Red Course, and playing to the left is the Black Course.  Both "Courses" then play the remaing 17 holes.

Other modifications throughout the years involve moving the #15th green (Old #18) to provide room for a more spacious clubhouse at the former location and well as some work to #14 (Old #17) to allow the linking of the ponds exiting the property.  There was also some greenside bunker reworking in the early 1990's.

Overall, Woodway has been able to maintain relevancy vs. par due to the difficulty of its greens and their surrounds.  The greens have been pushed back to nearly their originally square shapes and no fewer than 14 of the 18 greens feature multiple, pinable tiers.  Park, Jr., as a master putter, placed great emphasis on large rolling greens that offered a difficult two putt if you were unfortunate to be in the wrong position.  That strategy of design still holds today with faster green speeds accentuating the green tiering.  Greenside hillocks and ridges corral the well-struck shot to the pin while the thinned shot would roll over these banks into difficult short-sided recoveries in the pre-sand wedge/lob wedge era.  Just short is virtually always a good miss and Woodway.

There is a relative balance between left and right doglegs, and the fairways feature enough roll and shape to provide a less than flat lie once in a while.  The fairways have been tightened from their original width, and their has been discussion about their relocation to the fairway edges.  #16 was old #1, and the hole was called the "Toughest Opening Hole in Connecticut."

The stats from the Red Course which is used for Men's Tournament Play:

Championship/Blue Tees:  35-36=71 - 6,773 yards/ 73.2 Rtg. & 138 Slope
Middle/White Tees:  35-36=71 - 6,416 yards/ 71.6 Rtg. & 136 Slope
Forward/Red Tees:  37-37=74 = 5,785 yards/ 74.1 Rtg. & 135 Slope

Par 3's: 213/165/192
Par 4's: 397/450/390/424/401/373/402/350/331/362/428/363/378
Par 5's: 579/575

In regards to specific questions:

Wayne, the fairway bunker on #6 is a 225 yard carry into the prevailing wind, and it takes a well struck or carved shot to reach and stay up on the left fairway plateau.  About the only time that I purposely try to carry the bunker is if the pin is on the front right of the green as the encroaching trees prevent an attack of a left sided pin.  The play for me is 2 irong down the middle with a slight draw to hold the slope as much as possible, then a 4-5-6 iron from 170 to 200 yards up the hill.  Driver for a 260+ carry player is exacting, and then the trees present lofted flight issues that make it a sucker play.  

I don't wish to be drawn into the Philmont discussion.  I refer to the "Monster Bunker on #13" as the Mick Jagger bunker due to its extended tongue.

JWK




« Last Edit: July 05, 2006, 12:09:00 PM by James W. Keever »

John Sabino

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Woodway Country Club (Willie Park, Jr.)
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2006, 02:12:59 PM »
Kyle and James - these are really great pictures and commentary. Having been lucky enough to play Willie Park Jr.'s Sunningdale Old, your comments are right on regarding his use of natural contours and his putting a premium being in the appropriate spot on the green. His reputation as a great designer is justly deserved. Joe
Author: How to Play the World's Most Exclusive Golf Clubs and Golf's Iron Horse - The Astonishing, Record-Breaking Life of Ralph Kennedy

http://www.top100golf.blogspot.com/

HamiltonBHearst

Re:Woodway Country Club (Willie Park, Jr.)
« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2006, 02:25:09 PM »



Woodway would seem to be a place that would benefit by highlighting the quirky aspects of the design rather than hiding them or bulldozing them away.

What architectural firm did the work on the course?  Sorry but nothing on the 9th hole reminds of anything on a classic course.  RTJ/REES yes, 1920 design no way.

BCowan

Re: Woodway Country Club (Willie Park, Jr.)
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2015, 10:18:47 PM »
very nice thread, bump.  Maybe some more photos could be added.

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back