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Thomas_Brown

Re: Best College Courses
« Reply #50 on: May 31, 2002, 02:33:20 PM »
U.C. San Diego - Torrey Pines!!

Okay - I'm fudging the ownership rule.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Mike Trenham

Re: Best College Courses
« Reply #51 on: May 31, 2002, 03:58:40 PM »
SPDP
Dick Sayer
BCrosby

I am probably the resident expert on Birdwood @ UVA.  As I went to B-school there and graduated in 1999.

Is it a University owned course?

Yes - It is owned by the Boars Head Resort which is owned by UVA.  There are attractive membership rates for students (approximately 300 a semester) and faculty.  It is also open to outside play.

The course is situated on an old farm in between UVA and Farmington CC (the best classic course in central virginia).  

The property is extreemly hilly and the architect Buddy Loving somehow laid out the course so that there are minimal up-hill tee shots (only the two par 5's on the back and number 9).  This results in at least 5 long uphill walks between greens an tees, so BCrosby I hope you are in good shape.  You can identify the law students easily they are the ones in the carts, the b-school guys walk.

Highlights:

Par 5's all reachable if you cut the corners or are willing to risk a ball ob or in a creek.  One of the better sets of 4 par 5's I have ever seen.  Lots of risk and reward.

#4 Green is probably the worst surface ever designed, there is not a flat spot on the green (except the frount which is guarded by water) and it has a slope throughout that would be usually only found between two tiers.  They tell me the green was flattened out a in the early 1990's but I find that hard to belive.  This coupled with the tons of grain make it really questionable.

#6 a 300 yard hole that drove me crazy (another wild green but acceptable givent the length of the hole.

#11 a long par 4 that plays down then up.

#13 a short par 4 with lots of choices from the members tee

#15 and #17 the par 5s mentioned above

#18 a very long par 4 with a very large green

Overall the course is fairly generous in the width of the corridors and the greens are pretty difficult.  A good course but not a great course and I think GD ranking it in the top 10 university clubs is a result of the lack of interesting golf in Virginia and the local raters boosting the score.  Doak score 3 or 4.  In Philly this course would not make the top 40.

Heck that's ok THE UNIVERSITY is ranked in the top 10 for so many other more important criteria.

BCrosby - you have my ultimate respect if you walk this course in the heat of summer.  They sell beer by the pitcher!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best College Courses
« Reply #52 on: June 01, 2002, 05:27:51 AM »
Mike:

I played Birdwood more than a few times during my visits to
my brother while he attended UVA Law.  I found it to be a
very difficult walking course, which, of course, we always did
walk.  It's a nice course, but hardly in the same breath as
some of the other college courses.

But it is better than the Orange or the Blue at University of
Illinois!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

paul m.

Re: Best College Courses
« Reply #53 on: June 01, 2002, 08:56:57 AM »
I'd have to give the edge to TACONIC over YALE.  A much prettier course, perhaps with less famed holes but overall a more amazing golf experience.  A number of holes at Taconic can measure up with any course in the world...#3,4,10,11,13,16...the list goes on.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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mike skokie

Re: Best College Courses
« Reply #54 on: June 01, 2002, 09:01:19 AM »
Dartmouth's course is a lot of fun!! Really cool routing and some severe mountain golf.  But Taconic is way above any other college course, I rate it above Yale as well - it is better maintained and is beautifully sculpted...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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jg7236

Re: Best College Courses
« Reply #55 on: June 01, 2002, 11:53:38 AM »
1) U.N.L.V--Shadow Creek

2)  Oklahoma State--Karsten Creek

3)  Duke

4)  Ohio State

5)  University of Houston


Shadow Creek and Karsten Creek are two gems most will never see, nor get a chance to play.  They are both Fazio courses, stepping foot on one is like being a part of a painting
and Fazio is doing all the painting.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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CHrisB

Re: Best College Courses
« Reply #56 on: June 01, 2002, 12:17:32 PM »
jg7236,
I wouldn't call Shadow Creek a university course.  Might as well give ANGC to Augusta State!  Where is UH's university course?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Dave_Miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best College Courses
« Reply #57 on: June 01, 2002, 02:49:05 PM »
TCC as Harvard is a stretch.  TCC only thinks they own Harvard. Plus Harvard also uses other courses.

1. Yale
2. Duke
3. Michigan
4. Colgate - Seven Oaks
5. Ohio State - Scarlet

Also a lot of fun is University of Virginia - Birdwood and ASU- Karsten course.

Did not know Wake Forest owned a course.
Cheers
Dave Miller
 

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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jg7236

Re: Best College Courses
« Reply #58 on: June 01, 2002, 08:38:54 PM »
Chris B,

Yes you are right in one instance, and wrong in another.  Shadow Creek is a exclusive private course for high rollers here in Vegas.  But on the other hand it is where U.N.L.V practices, so it is a University course too.  But it wasn't built for that aspect.  I am Alumni of U.N.L.V so for my sake it is U.N.L.V.'s golf course.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Anthony_Nysse

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best College Courses
« Reply #59 on: June 02, 2002, 09:01:36 AM »
JG7236,
   I belive that an actual university course is one that is open to the entire university and I'm sure that Shadow Creek and Barton aren't open to all students
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

John_Conley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best College Courses
« Reply #60 on: June 02, 2002, 10:13:40 AM »

Quote
Chris B,

Yes you are right in one instance, and wrong in another.  Shadow Creek is a exclusive private course for high rollers here in Vegas.  But on the other hand it is where U.N.L.V practices, so it is a University course too.  But it wasn't built for that aspect.  I am Alumni of U.N.L.V so for my sake it is U.N.L.V.'s golf course.

I'm amazed at what I learn on GCA.  I thought I was familiar with the better college courses.  Shadow Creek is a shocker.  I'd heard they did as few as 10 rounds per day when Wynn owned it and know play has increased greatly since the Mirage was sold.  Did UNLV students and faculty have access before the sale, or just after?

What is the green fee for students?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Michael Goody

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best College Courses
« Reply #61 on: October 31, 2002, 05:43:51 PM »
Fairly new to the site and completely new to the discussion group- but absolutely love it.

I know that this is an old thread, but want to revisit/ask a question:
I went to Dartmouth and played the old Hanover CC more than 200 times while there and loved it. Quirky and fun old course. I haven't seen/played the new course yet, so looking for some feedback on what it's like. I have seen pictures and it looks like Ron Prichard did a good job though. Anyone played it since the redesign?

Recently played Stanford and thought it was a great course- certainly has a great lineage architecturally (Thomas/Bell- although more Bell from what I gather from Geoff Shackelford's book on Thomas (btw- a great read if you haven't read it already- Thomas was an alum of my high school as well- which I thought was pretty cool personally) and history (Tatum/Watson/Tiger).

One course that wasn't included in this thread that I've played and liked was Springdale (Princeton). Heard somewhere that they were reworking it- any input?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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David Wigler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best College Courses
« Reply #62 on: October 31, 2002, 06:57:54 PM »
Goodmic,

You are a brave soul bringing up University courses during football season.  I have no answer to your question but the home of an Alister MacKenzie course with Maize and Blue colors is going to kick the butt of the home of an Art Hills course with green and white colors this weekend.  We have MacKenzie they have Hills!  I'll leave it at that!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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And I took full blame then, and retain such now.  My utter ignorance in not trumpeting a course I have never seen remains inexcusable.
Tom Huckaby 2/24/04

Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best College Courses
« Reply #63 on: November 01, 2002, 05:09:46 AM »
Yale, by far, is the best college course I have seen as of yet.

Stanford is pretty good, but OSU Scarlet was a big disappointment, as is Wisconsin's University Ridge.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best College Courses
« Reply #64 on: November 01, 2002, 05:31:09 AM »
Does the Dartmouth course still have the ski ramp that runs along the right edge of the 18th fairway?

Bob
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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David Wigler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best College Courses
« Reply #65 on: November 02, 2002, 01:55:40 PM »
MacKenzie - 49
Hills - 3

Life has returned to normal!!!!!

 :) :) :) :) :) :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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And I took full blame then, and retain such now.  My utter ignorance in not trumpeting a course I have never seen remains inexcusable.
Tom Huckaby 2/24/04

Paul Albanese

Re: Best College Courses
« Reply #66 on: November 02, 2002, 03:31:09 PM »
As a Cornell grad myself.........there are some great holes on this RTJ original........I believe it was the second course he ever did......at least the back nine........there are some OK holes..........but, there are also some really intriguing ones too........the second, number 10, 11, and 12........16, 17 and 18............the greens are very good.  

But, Yale........hands down.........a true classic.




« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Willie_Dow

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best College Courses
« Reply #67 on: November 02, 2002, 03:45:54 PM »
Bill Johnson, former Dartmouth Golf Coach, carted me around the renovated Hanover Country Club last June.  He explained that Ron Prichard was responsible for the redesign of many additions and melding the 1899 short 9-hole course - expanded to the old 18 in 1922.  Four holes across Lyme Rd. will offer a practice and teaching area, the five holes of the 1932 Ralph Barton nine being part of this new Prichard 18, will make an outstanding, par 71, 6500 yard course.  Steve Lyons, Head Greenkeeper, and new Dartmouth Coach, Jason Calhoun, formerly an assistant pro at Philadelphia Country Club, who finished sixth in last year's Phila. Section PGA Assistants Championship, will make up the new chain of command.  Go Green!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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D. Kilfara

Re: Best College Courses
« Reply #68 on: November 02, 2002, 03:54:42 PM »
Just visiting this thread for the first time...some rather strange opinions have been ventured on the status of TCC's relationship with the Harvard golf team. In particular: Bob Crosby, where did you get this information from?

"Harvard rotates among TCC, Myopia, Brae Burn, Concord CC and others for qualifying and home matches."

I played on the Harvard team for four years in the 1990s and we never played Myopia or Brae Burn once. Nor Charles River, sadly. We might have played Concord CC once.

We did, however, practice and play more-or-less full time at TCC. The members would occasionally force us onto the Primrose nine (three holes of which belong to the Composite U.S. Open course) during busier periods, and our access to the small driving range in particular was limited. But during my time at Harvard I probably played the "Big Course", as we liked to call it, at least 50-60 times to completion. People think I was kidding when I tell them I decided to go to Harvard because of the golf course its team played on. Wisdom beyond my years, I tell you. :)

I do have to laugh at the person who thought Dartmouth's course was better than Yale's. But then, Yale was an acquired taste which most of my Harvard teammates never acquired. Their loss...

The St. Andrews golf team, which I also played for for a year, very rarely got on the Old Course. A number of home fixtures were played on the Strathtyrum Course, actually - the relationship between the Links Trust and the student-led club was often strained to the point of breaking. But as I've said before, the best deal in golf is the one you get as a student or resident of St. Andrews - $150 (as of 1996) for a year's pass to all 99 holes in St. Andrews, including TOC as often as you like. Parents: encourage your children to matriculate at St. Andrews. Tuitions fees are low, the quality of education is good, the school is fairly easy for overseas students to get in, your children will benefit from the experience of living abroad for a year, and you'll have a fantastic excuse to visit!

Cheers,
Darren
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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D. Kilfara

Re: Best College Courses
« Reply #69 on: November 02, 2002, 03:58:00 PM »
Willie, in fairness I haven't seen the redesigned version of Dartmouth. But surely it ain't Yale, no?

Bill Johnson is a very nice guy - I didn't know he was "former" coach, though. Not that he'll necessarily remember me, but if you see him again give him my regards, will you?

Cheers,
Darren
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Josh

Re: Best College Courses
« Reply #70 on: November 02, 2002, 06:03:36 PM »
BC plays Brae Burn's 9 hole course regularaly and, every once in a while, plays the championship course.  It's a great old Ross course -- more varied than Charles River and more fun to play on a day to day basis than Salem.  The first 7 holes rival any golf course in the land (from there on things get slightly more pedestrian).  Still, it doesn't belong on this list.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Matt_Cohn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best College Courses
« Reply #71 on: November 02, 2002, 09:02:04 PM »
Is the Scarlet course under the knife? By Weiskopf or anyone?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Mike_Sweeney

Re: Best College Courses
« Reply #72 on: November 03, 2002, 07:22:35 AM »
Josh,

Who cares where BC plays golf ? We just knocked off Notre Dame  :)

Pat & Tommy,

Rather than cuss The Jesuits and the football team at BC for ruining your National Title run, you should actually be thanking us from a golf architecture standpoint. Now you will not have to play in a 6 hour golf outing run by the ND Atheletic Department on the latest CCFAD in Tempe on December 31st !!

Maybe in two years when BC goes back to South Bend, we can have a little outing at ND's/C&C's Warren Course before the payback.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Teejay

Re: Best College Courses
« Reply #73 on: November 03, 2002, 04:39:38 PM »
I go to Colgate and try to play seven oaks golf club as much as humanily possible in the non-snowy months. It is a gem. Great old course that has a ton of history behind it. It was RTJ's first job, (His course at Cornell was actually his thesis project, so the story goes) But because of the depression and World Wars Seven Oaks was not actually complited until the early 60's, even though RTJ designed it in 30's. It a joy to walk, and many of the holes have views of the campus. It has to be ranked very high on best college courses, and i believe it was actually a top5 by GD's college rankings. Also, i believe GD ranked it top 10 best public courses in NY State. Everyone should try to play it if they are in the Central New York Area, its 20bucks.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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MainelyJack

Re: Best College Courses
« Reply #74 on: November 04, 2002, 02:34:30 PM »
I have seen scant mention of the University of New Mexico's South Course. It has been ranked in the top 25 Public Courses in the country by Golf Digest, hosted the 1998 NCAA Men's Finals and other PGA and LPGA qualifying events. It was designed by Robert Lawrence. I have seen the course, but not played it. I always understood it had a good reputation for being a top course.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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