[Justin_Zook]

I have a few questions for all of you out there who have minds packed with knowledge.  I was wondering if they lived lives filled with luxury.  

I am pretty sure A.W. Tillinghast died a poor man and I think Alister McKenzie died in his bungalow at Pasatiempo.  Neither of them seemed to live great lives filled with riches...or did they?  

This brings me to any question.  I have always envisioned the modern golf course architect living a life with a few BMWs in his 5 car garage and lives in a huge luxurious home.  Am I wrong here?  

In terms of the popularity of the Golden Age designers in their prime, would they compare with the popularity of a Tom Fazio or a Rees Jones now?  

Are designers like Tom Fazio and Rees Jones too expectant upon huge wages to pay for their work?  Do we pay them these large amounts of money simply to satisfy and ego, or keep them looking as good as they do now?  

I would like to know if some "underground" designer is out there who will eventually become a "Tillie" or a "Good Dr," but we just don't know about him yet?  

Is good design an underground sort of thing??  

Thanks and please let me hear your thoughts!  

Justin

[Chris_Clouser]

Justin,

To be honest with you, 99% of Americans don't even know that Jack Nicklaus is now an architect.  Aside from RTJ and maybe Pete Dye, I don't know if any architect has ever been a publicly renowned personality.  Dye was made famous by the AM/EX commercials.  There's a quote in Jurassic Park that equates RTJ to some other famous person in their field, so he was possibly a well-known personality.  Perhaps some of the more prominent personalities of the Golden Age were household names.  People like Thomas and Hunter could have been because they had other interests besides just GCA.  But for architecture if any did, I would bet Mackenzie, Ross, Macdonald and maybe Tillinghast could have been somewhat familiar names to the general populus.

I don't know enough details of Tillinghast, but from the biography done by Tom Doak, etal it seems that Mackenzie led a fast life.  But I doubt that many of the architects today live the "easy" life.  In talking with people like Jerry Slack, Jerry Lemons, Mike DeVries and others, I doubt they are running with high rollers.  They probably more than likely have good lives and can buy their groceries on a weekly basis without much thought.  The select few that are at the top of the profession may, but just like everything else those are not the rule of thumb to go by.  

In researching his life, I have found that Perry Maxwell is often seen, incorrectly, as a rich banker who had money out the wazzoo.  Perry wasn't hurting for money, but he was not the type of guy who would have lived that way, even if he had the ability.  He kept cash flowing to pay for his kids college and to live his life without really touching his nestegg.  In comparison to many people during the Depression, I suppose you could call him "rich" for the purposes of this post.

[Mike_Young]

Golden Age designers did not know they were in the golden age.
Real Estate Development created the demand for the " signatures " of today.  You are not paying for the design as much as for the signature which the person ,if a professional golfer, has worked years to make a valuable asset.  They should get what the market will bear whether it be course design, apparrell, clubs etc.  So I would not confuse the two.
IMHO other architects can make a comfortable living but not as many outside expect.  Construction is where the real money has been in the last few years so many can do a design/build and justify a higher fee as well as save the owner money.

[Mike_Cirba]

Justin;

My gut tells me that becoming a golf course architect isn't something that one does to become rich in 99% of the cases.

Instead, I suspect that those who choose that career path do it because they can't imagine anything else they'd rather spend their life doing, modest lifestyle notwithstanding.  

[Tim Weiman]

Justin:

I’m not inclined to think that multiple BMWs in the garage are what it is all about for most golf architects. Besides I think there is another way to measure “wealth”: the experiences one has in the journey of life, so to speak.

Twenty years ago Robert Trent Jones was on his way to see the King of Moracco. On the way he stopped into a little town in the Southwest of Ireland and was forced to call the King and tell him he would be a bit late. He found a place he wanted to build a golf course. It became the Cashen course at Ballybunion. As I’ve written before, the stories of Mr. Jones in Ballybunion as told by local friends of mine bring tears.

I just can’t imagine that on any old project in Myrtle Beach or Scottsdale.

My sense is that among modern architects Tom Doak probably has a richness of experiences that can match anyone, in part, or large part, because of Tom’s desire to work internationally. Of course, early in his career Tom made a point to get around and see most of what the golf architecture world has to offer.

Working internationally is not easy. There is a downside. The travel can be exhausting. Balancing family life gets tougher. But, the upside is tremendous in terms of the people you can meet and the different experiences you can have.

One of my closest friends is a Belgian oil trader now working in Abu Dhabi. We met when he spent a few years working in Los Angeles. After LA he took his family to Paris working for Elf, the big French oil firm. His daughter, then in seventh grade attending local French schools was asked to give a presentation on where she found the best food.

She got up and said Los Angeles!

Not many kids her age would have had such courage, but having already lived in 5 or 6 countries, she had all the self confidence in the world.

That’s a lot better than three BMWs in the garage.

[Justin_Zook]

First of all, I appreciate all of your responces.  

Second, I agree with all of you.

Living your life modestly is the best way to live one's life, and while there is nothing wrong with BMW's, they are certainly not what life is about.  I know that for sure.  Although, I do hope to own a BMW someday, not because its "elite," but because BMW's have always been my favorite company.  

Anyway, I wanted to clear up a possible misnomer that I had about previous architects and modern architects.  I think I would just like to know what those "Golden Agers" were like.  I am pretty sure that someday, I want to design (a) golf course(s), and so I would like to know as much about how they approached the profession as possible.  

I know that in your life, family is the most important thing, and when I have an 18 year old son posting on the newest version of GCA, I want to make sure he is as respectful, honest, and interested in other peoples viewpoints as I try to be, but his favorite designer better be Flynn!  

Anyway, those are some more of my thoughts.  

Thanks again,

Justin

[ian]

Justin,

Its like the rest of life, the ones that your familiar with make the best living, the rest "make a living". Mr Cirba's point was excellent on that note, money does not lead you to architecture. Its strictly a benefit until you have kids. Money comes and goes with the cycle of work you have. Its like being in sales. When you do well you have more money, when you have less work, you tighten your belt.

What's most important is to remember the majority of architects are not named Jones, Nicklaus or Fazio and do not get paid even remotely near the fees.

As for the golden agers, some of these guys (Thompson in particular) had a gift for going from wealth to poverty and back again over and over again.

I thought Mackenzie simply retired at Pasatiempo. Didn't Tille walked away from designing to sell antiques?

[Justin_Zook]

Yes sir you are correct about both.  Let me check "The Spirit of St. Andrews."  There is his obituary in there.  I'll get back to you in a second

[Justin_Zook]

Here is his Obituary:

Dr. Alister MacKenzie, internationally famous golf course architect, author and founder of the Camouflage School, England, which all officers of the allied forces during the World War (WWI) attended to learn camouflage, died early yesterday afternoon at his home in Pasatiempo.  He was 63 years of age, a native of Scotland, and had resided in this city since March, 1930.

Funeral services will be held Tuesday at 11 o'clock a.m. with Rev. Norman H. Snow of the Episcopal church officiating: Inurnment will be in the Odd Fellows' mausoleum.  Eventually the ashes will be sent to Dr. MacKenzie's old home in Scotland.

Dr. MacKenzie came back to the United States in 1927 especially to lay out Cypress Point golf course.  In 1929, he came to Santa Cruz and laid out the Pasatiemp course.  He married Mrs. Edgar Haddock during that year and in 1930 built the home in which he died.

He had been ill only a short time and had been confined to his bed only two days.  Surviving are the following:  Mrs. MacKenzie, widow; two sisters, Miss Mabie MacKenzie and Dr. Marion MacKenzie; a stepson, G. Marston Haddock of San Francisco; Mrs. Haddock and two children.

Dr. MacKenzie had laid out and completed over 400 golf courses in England, Scotland Australia, New Zealand and the United States, and was considered one of the best golf architects.  He was consulting architect for the Royal and Ancient Golf Club of St. Andrews, Scotland.  Among the principal courses in this country planned and laid out by him were Cypress Point, Pasatiempo and Augusta National.  He also laid out the Buenos Aires Jockey Club park at Buenos Aires.

Dr. MacKenzie had just finished a book on golf entitled "The Spirit of St. Andrews."  This book had not yet been published.  He was working on a book on camouflage at the time of his death.  The introduction of "The Spirit of St. Andrews" was written by Bobby Jones, internationally famed golfer.

-Santa Cruz Sentinel, 1934

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