[Shane Gurnett]

As all the Aussie boys would be aware, the Australian Open at Vic starts this Thursday at Victoria GC in Melbourne. Its been 21 years since the last Open was held at this terrific layout.

Victoria will be on show to the world as a fantastic example of how a golden era course can be restored to its original glory. Hopefully several of the other sandbelt clubs will take note of just how effective the restoration program at Vic has been managed, as I cannot imagine anything but praise being bestowed on the Club (and the course) over the next seven days.

This may be the first time that a premier Australian course has been in the spotlight in its restored condition, as opposed to many which have been (significantly) altered to meet the requirements of tournament play. Hopefully the pros can give Victoria GC the very best press for doing the "right things"

In terms of the long term impact of golf course architecture in this country, has there ever been a more important week?

[Mike Clayton]

Shane
The significance of this week is that it will be the only time all year professional golf goes to a course as fast and hard .
The precision required is far beyond anything else-Augusta excepted- and as Appleby said today 'we are going to have to re-evaluate everything we do'
I saw the greens for the first time in four days and they have gone from green to brown in that time.They are perfect to putt and there will not be even close to a pitch mark on them all week.
Even par will be a great number and maybe only eight guys in the field will cope.Allenby,Appleby,Baddeley, Ogilvy,Lonard,Parry,Scott.Interesting to see how Charles Howell handles it.

[Pete_Pittock]

I hope a lot of American superintendents tune in to the Golf Channel broadcasts this week Wed 9p, Th 8p, Fr 8p, Sa 5p to see how firm and fast plays.

[Chris Kane]

Shane,

I hope that a number of things will come out of this week:

*As you said, this is the first tournament played on a course that has been "sympathetically restored".  I hope that the praise heaped on Victoria will encourage other clubs to embark on a similar program: the end result we're seeing this week is incredible.

*Encourage clubs, both local and international, to strive for the firm and fast Tom Paul maintenance meld.  From what some players are saying, the scoring is going to be relatively high this week, and it can be attributed to the fantastic conditioning.  One can only imagine what this week would be like with soft greens.  Let's hope the rain doesn't fall (although the clouds outside aee looking threatening   )

*Convince the AGU and other relevant bodies that our classic courses are the best venues to hold the national championship.  This week is a showcase for Victoria, and the Open should be a showcase for courses of similar quality each year.

I know that many Americans from GCA are interested in the Open, primarily because of the maintenance meld.  Let's keep it that way, rather than going to places like The Grand and Moonah Links which aren't unique.

*I hope that the AGU realise that the decision with the 1st hole was a mistake.  Thomson described it today in the Age: "rearranging the normally weak first hole into a worrying par three", which I think is missing the point.  The first as a 4 is an average hole, while as a par 3 it is a shocker.  It is now the only weak hole on a fantastic golf course.

Anyway, it will be a great week, and, as Thomson put it, it "might be the best Open yet".  
  

[Shane Gurnett]

Chris/Mike, I agree.

The point I was trying to make is that the Open this week at Victoria may be the turning point for some critical architecture issues in this country. As we have seen in the past, many clubs here follow the fashion of the times, which has in the past been detrimental to some of our major courses. For example, over-planting, inappropriate rough and fairway lines, even the US Open style set up of some our parkland style courses, particularly around the greens. If the Open at Victoria can showcase the benefits of a sympathetic restoration program, and is praised by the golf community(including the payers) for doing so, then others should follow the lead. Some clubs here just might get back on track. The set up of Vic this week represents everything that a first class Australian golf course should be.

Hopefully the committe members of some of the other Melbourne clubs can get down there this week and see first hand just how much, and importantly why, Victoria has improved over the last 10 years.

[Mike Clayton]

Shane
Perhaps I shouldn't be commenting because we did all the work and can only see it through my eyes.I think it is good but show me an architect who thought his work was lousy.
You are absolutely right of course -there are a few who ought to get down and try to understand what has gone on at Victoria.
I wonder ,though ,if it is beyond the understanding of those who really need to address the same sort of problems that Victoria had -and still has in places.
There are still a few self-inflicted wounds to repair as well so the job is far from finished.
Ironically the success of the tournament may lead many members to question why more needs to be done.Probably the same sceptics who questioned it in the first place.
Like the one who said 'We don't want to drive around in cars made in 1930.Why is the golf course any different?'
I was to slow to come up with the obvious answer -'rather a 1930 Rolls Royce than a 1984 Commodore'

[Glen_Fergo]

I fully agree with most things I've read here on this topic!

One of the great things about the traditional old style courses is the fact that shots have to be hit to the right places. Weak shots are gathered off greens into spots where an up & down isn't automatic. I don't think a chop out of a collar of rough constitutes skill really.

These things test amateurs and pros alike given that the members don't really play the course harder than it is set up for the pros.

I played here in the Aussie Amateur in the early 90's and found a course significantly different (worse) to that I'd played in the early 70's. I haven't seen Mike's changes yet but I am sufficiently impressed by the opinions espoused in his regular columns to know that he'd recommend changes best for the true nature of such a course to be restored. I do agree with the criticsim of the change to the first hole! Why is calling up apparently banned on the pro circuit? Is it dangerous or just not the done professional thing?

Let's leave the resort type courses for a once off game to say you've played them (I wouldn't go back to many because of cost and lack of enjoyment) and leave courses like Victoria, NSW, Royal M etc as those you want to go back and play every few years and refresh yourself. Who can remember each hole on a resort courses played 3 months ago as opposed to one of the classis course in their area?

[Mark_F]

Aren't we getting ahead of ourselves here guys?  
This is melbourne, remember.  hasn't rained in weeks, and, of course, two days befoer the open starts there's drizzle.  Anyone want to start a book on the possibility of typhoons and tidal waves by Thursday morning?

[Mark_F]

Every year when the Aust. tour starts up again we get the US-based Australian players crying tears of joy that they can play proper courses again.  Yet, isn't it funny how, with one or two exceptions, most of them don't like hanging around...

[NicP]

Firstly a confession. As Shane / Mike and Chris knwo well I am a very passionate member of Victoria so maybe my comments are a bit tainted. I will keep my thoughts brief so I don't ramble on!

1) The underlying layout is solid - not the best in town but not the worst.
2) The place is hardly recognisable from the one I joined 8 years agao. Mike and his team have down a magnificant restoration job and should be applauded for their efforts.
3) Although I disagree with the 1st (i think it will be a farce) the course, and club for that matter, will be a fine host of the Championship which deserves more than the side show of The Grand last year.
4) I walked the majority of the course on Sunday afternoon and it will take a patient shotmaker with a variey of shots to win - no American 150 seven iron swing hit land stop.
5) I hope not only the AGU but the various PGA's and even the USGA watch the Open and see how a course should be set up. Note no ankle deep rough around the greens! Have the course hard and fast and let them play!
6) If you think this Open will be good give us 10 or so years and see what the course will be like then - right Mike?! (If I could just get enough votes!)
7) The week will be a great success. My tip: Ogilvy. Can't go past an old mate who I have played with at VGC to many times to remember! He knows the place like the back of his hand and probably should have won a Vic Open there when he was an Am.

I hope everybody enjoys the week.

[Mark_F]

Nic, are any/many members grumbling about Mike's work?  If so, why?

Firstly a confession. As Shane / Mike and Chris knwo well I am a very passionate member of Victoria so maybe my comments are a bit tainted. I will keep my thoughts brief so I don't ramble on!

1) The underlying layout is solid - not the best in town but not the worst.
2) The place is hardly recognisable from the one I joined 8 years agao. Mike and his team have down a magnificant restoration job and should be applauded for their efforts.
3) Although I disagree with the 1st (i think it will be a farce) the course, and club for that matter, will be a fine host of the Championship which deserves more than the side show of The Grand last year.
4) I walked the majority of the course on Sunday afternoon and it will take a patient shotmaker with a variey of shots to win - no American 150 seven iron swing hit land stop.
5) I hope not only the AGU but the various PGA's and even the USGA watch the Open and see how a course should be set up. Note no ankle deep rough around the greens! Have the course hard and fast and let them play!
6) If you think this Open will be good give us 10 or so years and see what the course will be like then - right Mike?! (If I could just get enough votes!)
7) The week will be a great success. My tip: Ogilvy. Can't go past an old mate who I have played with at VGC to many times to remember! He knows the place like the back of his hand and probably should have won a Vic Open there when he was an Am.

I hope everybody enjoys the week.

[Justin_Ryan]

Shane/Chris
I don't think that there are really that many courses that would be greatly improved by a sympathetic restoration in the country, as the bulk that have been changed probably weren't that great to start with.  The obvious exception is Commonwealth, hence your interest, which was once one of our greatest courses and ought to be amongst the top five in the country.  Another that has suffered over the years, although to a lesser degree, is Yarra Yarra.  New South Wales also sounds like it emerged from the war in a significantly different state, and could be a possible candidate.  It would be interesting to see some old photos.

Mike
I read the article in The Age that Chris referred to and got the impression that all the work done at Victoria was done by Thommo.  Indeed, since Thommo fixed the course up in the early sixties, little has changed, to quote  "The course has been given a once-over to bring it up to international scratch, rearranging the normally weak first hole into a worrying par three, allowing the extension and straightening of the 10th.

Further afield, little has changed. The bunkering we did in the early 1960s (under the watchful eye of the erstwhile secretary/manager Jack Merrick), has stood the test of time and stands as the principal obstacle to absurd low scoring.

Seventeen fairway bunkers of varying shapes and sizes were added, making Victoria the most difficult and awkward driving test on our roster of championship layouts"  

They probably wouldn't have had any trouble with the 1st hole if he hadn't have built such a poor green to start with, which hopefully will be replaced by something that works in due course. And c'mon Thommo, how about giving a bit of credit where credit is due.  

Chris
I know that firm and fast has become the mantra around here, and I love it around the greens, but I'm not convinced it is that great on the fairways, especially on a flatter course where it is unlikely to roll into any trouble.

And do you really think that Moonah Links isn't unique?  Sadly, I think it is unique in a number of ways.

[Matt_Cohn]

I had the pleasure of a guided tour around Victoria with Shane G yesterday. I had not seen the course before and it is unbelievable, you guys in the States HAVE to see this place on TV - not that you can get the full effect of it there!

Shane pointed out some of Mike Clayton's work and it's really good stuff. Interesting that the spots where I said, "That looks a little strange..." were TWP's work, not Mike's!

Well done Mike, I can't wait to see play this week, let's all hope for high scores, good comments, and a great champion...

[rpurd]

Really looking forward to watching the AO!  I will be burning the midnight oil to see a firm and fast course.  Maybe some of our superintendents state-side will see what firm is!  Hopefully my home club's maintenance crew will be watching too!

[Mark_Huxford]

Justin, I saw that piece yesterday and thought I read some jealousy between the lines. Does Peter Thomson have his nose out of joint because Victoria is his home Club and Mike is now his competition?

[Shane Gurnett]

I'll be out there on Friday afternoon with a few mates. If anyone else is around then and is keen to hook up, let me know (email or personal message). Should be a great days golf.

John Senden is a sneaky chance, at nice odds of $35-1.

[Justin_Ryan]

Mark
It was only after I posted that I remembered that Thommo is an important part of the history at Vic and therefore how extraordinary it was that Mike's firm got the job.  One can only surmise that those in charge at Vic decided it was time to give someone else a go (that is putting it as politely as I can).  You would have to imagine that this left Thommo very unhappy.

[TEPaul]

I hadn't tuned in to this thread yet--glad I didn't wait any longer.

The Australian Open at Victoria with these conditons, restoration and setup will be something to watch. Give us here in the States a long range weather forecast for the tournament.

I'm going to call all the members of the green committee, golf committee and other influential members of my club including the super to tune into this tournament. I suggest others here in the US do the same, like today!

It occurs to me when talking about firm and fast and/or the "ideal maintenance meld" for particular types of courses (in this case classic/strategic) that people here hear what you're saying but they can't really visualize the extent or degree of what's being talked about and proposed!

Why? Simply because they've rarely if ever seen it in this country and to the proper or ideal degree!

The real key aspect to watch for me is EXACTLY how those balls that are flown onto the green surfaces react! That is if anyone really tries to fly balls onto them!! But I hope they do occasionally because it's very important that they do.

I don't want to see the aerial option onto greens removed entirely in Vic's set up just made made far more intense to basically balance somewhat with the option to play a compromise shot or run-in one!

Basically I don't want to see the aerial option removed entirely from the players any more than I want to see the ground game option removed entirely here in this country.

The key to me with firm and fast as it gets to that "ideal maintenance meld" is the firmness of those green surfaces to the aerial option. That's the absolute key ingredient to me! The aerial option must not be removed entirely only brought  into balance with other potential options to get every kind of shot (primarily approach shots) working in a delicate balance of functionality!

Make those pros really work to dial up the "control" of their aerial shots by dialing down the reliability of any old aerial shot's control! That single requirment will make them really think which kind of shot of a wide spectrum of possibilities to go with! That's the ideal to me--the "ideal maintenance meld"!

Good luck Down Under--I hope it doesn't rain! This will be interesting--we'll be watching--it will be real important to some of us over here and what we're trying to propose and accomplish. Congratulations Victoria and Mike Clayton! You guys over there are sure doing the right thing! What's going on in Australia sure got my attention a few years ago!

[Greg Ramsay]

Mike, it would great if you could post the aerial pics that you used to restore the course, showing how it has changed over the years.  They featured in one of the golf mags- surely M.Cocking can put them up some time?

I am looking forward to seeing how the pros play the course, but i have to say i am wary of how the media might portray the courses.  There is the potential they could be critical of the colour.  And remember the power of the TV, if Channel 7 want green greens, i'm sure they'll get them next year!  BUT i hope this does prove a great lesson that hard'n'fast is a much better, fairer and enjoyable way to challenge the golfer than simply adding length.

Greg Ramsay
www.barnbougledunes.com

[Justin_Ryan]

TE Paul
I've just checked the weather outlook, and whilst bad for the drought stricken farmers, it is positive for lovers of firm'n'fast golf.
Thurs - fine 23c
Fri - fine 23c
Sat - fine 25c
Sun - fine 32c

Hopefully the predicted hotter weather on Sunday will be accompanied by a stinking hot strong northerly.  That would really sort the men from the boys.

[Mike Clayton]

Well the course is right on the edge of sanity and the consensus is that its good. The good players especially are happy because they know so many are eliminated because of the precision needed this week.
The greens are awfully hard -slam a putter into them and they won't mark- and fast.
The first hole is going to be controversial because downwind there is no way to hold the green which is not suprising considering its designed for a short four and they are playing it as a 200 yard par three.
I think it will be fun viewing and hopefully the course stays on the edge and doesn't go over the line.

[TEPaul]

Mike Clayton:

I sure do hope too the course isn't perceived to have gone over the top in firm and fast setup. That won't be a good message to send at all, and could counteract all this good stuff.

A 200 yard par 3 that was designed as a short par 4 green? I don't know about that! Is there any way to land the ball short of the green if the green surface is that firm?

And secondly, you don't think these conditons are going to dial down the aerial option to nothing, do you? To the point it becomes no option at all? That wouldn't be good, in my opinion!

What I'd love to see is all those players using every single shot type, trajectory, and creativity their minds can conjure up!

If the greens are THAT hard (that firm) don't you think a little judicious green surface syringing would make the overall setup even more "Ideal"? Bring everything into that necessary "balance" or "quandry area", if you know what I mean!

[Mike Clayton]

TE
There is a way to run the ball onto the first green but not by pitching it into the bank in the front.The shot needs to be a low pitched middle iron that flies about 165 yards that lands on the flat ground over a bunker 40 yards short. Then it will scramble up the bank on stay on the green.
First up with nerves as they are, do I think anybody will try that shot?
 You may see a few brave ones try it but downwind most will be content to play from over the back.
The ariel option is still the one most will use all the way round but the longer ,lower shots will need to be landed well short of the flag but not necessarily the green itself.
Into the wind the ball will pitch and stop pretty reliably.
The real key this week is to keep the ball below the cup.
On many greens its better to be 15 feet short than 6 feet past.

[TEPaul]

The shot option described on the first hole sounds most interesting indeed. I like that very low trajectory shot that needs to get on the ground early particularly if there's a bunker 40 yds short of the green.

That shot option reminds me of one at Applebrook on #13 that no one apparently picked up on. The hole was orginally criticized for the rather severe upslope at green front that wasn't promoting the bounce-in shot. But people were failing to realize the ground game option on that hole is to hit the ball very low just over the bunker in the middle of the fairway about 40 yds short of the green and get it scooting on the ground early and running up the upslope. This is somewhat similar to #12 NGLA. Got to get the ball low and on the ground very early. Hit it low but landing it late and it will hit the upslope and stop.

MikeC:

All the other shot options and playabilities you just described at Victoria for the Australian Open sound fantastic. I can't wait to see this tonight!

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