[wsmorrison]

What holes would you like to see on the front and back covers of a book on the golf architecture of William S. Flynn?

I'm thinking about Shinnecock #7 on the front and Merion #1 on the back.  Any suggestions?

[SPDB]

Are you going to be including any of Flynn's work (not on the cover obviously) on The Primrose nine at TCC? The holes that are used for the composite course (8-9 on the primrose/12-13 on the comp.) are stunners, IMO.

[Jim Sullivan]

Obviously you have considered #16 at Shinnecock, but I would favor it over #7 if only because of the broader palette of design elements on display. Support your choice of Shinnecock and would love to see the book!  Have you considered some teasers at Merion West? #4, #5, and #17 are great candidates.

[ChipOat]

wsmorrison

Since Flynn's (arguably) 2nd most famous effort after Shinnecock is at The Greenbriar, why not a picturesque hole from there - especially in the autumn?

Merion #1 could have been a collaberation with Hugh Wilson before his death (the discussion of moving the driveway and the first hole is in the club minutes well before 1929) and folks might get confused.

Perhaps Flynn's most famous hole is Cherry Hills #1 - does it photograph OK?

Jim Sullivan:

It's not clear that any of Merion West can be directly attributed to Flynn.  He may have been around in 1913-14, but no more so than his participation in the pre-1923 routing of the East Course in 1911-12.

[JakaB]

If you want to appeal to the baby boomer demographic and perhaps pick up a few sales to the average golfer..I would have a picture of Correy Paven hitting that 4 wood shot that sealed the U.S. Open.  Don't even know what hole it is but there must be a pic of him doing his 'Sergio' leap long before the parkinson spaniard claimed it.

[SPDB]

I too would suggest staying away from Merion. It might give the wrong impression that this is some conspiracy theory book ("HUGH WILSON FOUND AS FRAUD; FLYNN: 'MERION WAS MINE'").  

I know I said it above, but I love the Primrose #8. It is one of my very favorite Flynn holes. This hole terrified the pros for very good reason - a 486 yard par 4, that required a drawn shot around a tree (there are even elements of Tom Paul's "Bunker in the Sky").

Here is a pretty good shot i found on the internet of the lower fairway looking up toward the hole (which of course is obscured).

http://community.webshots.com/photo/9702562/9703723kEZYNqLinE

[C. Rokke]

Chipoat-
any chance you are thinking of his Cascades
Course @ The Homestead? There are some good holes there such
as #17, but I haven't seen enough of his work to know how
they stack up.

[JakaB]

With my mind being more in tune with the average golfer than the scholars and purists that frequent this site...I have to say that if Cherry Hills #1 is the green that Arnold Palmer drove to win a big tounament...and Shinnecock 18 is the hole that Corry Pavin hit the famous 4 wood you seem to have a perfect opening and closing for a book about an architect that no average golfer has ever heard of.   The purist don't care about the pics on the cover and back...they care about content which I am sure will be outstanding....the consumer wants to make a purchase that looks pretty in their collection or on their coffee table.  I didn't see Arnold's drive but remember streching for his heroics as a kid...but I did see that little bastard hit his 4 wood into the mound and roll up next to the pin...that shot gave all of us struggling with a lack of obvious talent hope that we might hit the big shot some day and I think it would make people like me want to know more about the architect that let it happen.

Cover...Cherry Hills #1
Back...Shinnecock #18

[TEPaul]

WayneM:

I like what akaB said about the two holes with Palmer and Pavin but maybe the photos only show the golfers, not Flynn's holes. Also Palmer has fallen from his statue and might be picking himself out of the gutter at this point, but then again maybe he's still face down in the gutter and Flynn might pummel Pavin if he knew such a pipsqueak was on the back of his book!

I'm not sure I would consider Shinnecock's #7 though! I believe that hole, at the most, is a Flynn retread of an original Raynor redan!

My pick would be Shinnecock's #9 or #18 from the tee whichever catches the clubhouse best in the background. Either hole is so dramatic these days with those rolling fairways accentuated by the up and back cut they're using on the fairways!

[Mike_Sweeney]

From a commercial view, even my wife raves about the view from the 14th of Shinnecock with a distant view of National.

[Ben Cowan-Dewar]

12 at the Cascades would have to be a thought, a super par four with great elevation for a picture..

Craig, here is a mediocore shot of 17:

[Tom MacWood (Guest)]

Have you considered the 18th at Huntingdon V or 17th Country Club in Clevelend - both diagonally up an over interesting ground? Or the 12th Cascades and 14 Shinnecock that both fold down into the landscape. Another hole that photographs well is the 10th at Shinnecock. All these holes have bold contours that might come across well in photos. When is the book being published?

[BCrosby]

WSMorrison -

When is the book being published, who is publishing it and how can we buy it?  

I've been looking for anything on or by the mysterious Flynn.  A book length treatment is reason to celebrate.  Frankly, I don't care if it comes in a brown paper wrapper - though that will make my wife suspicious immediately.

Bob

[wsmorrison]

Happy to see my first topic has yielded such a good response.

First, let me say that the book is still a year or two away from completion.  The number of courses he designed, redesigned, and allegedly had a hand in as well as the many conflicting accounts requires a lot of time and the efforts of many to get right.  I hope this will be a definitive study of his life (very little known, even within his family), his courses, his agronomy work (hard to obtain--the Valentine family is helping), and the championships on his courses.  There will be a section on the players that participated in the championships:
Byron Nelson (an honor to speak with)--Phila CC
Hopefully I will get contributions from
Arnold Palmer--Cherry Hills; he has agreed to participate
Ray Floyd/Corey Pavin--Shinnecock
Lee Trevino--Merion
Sam Snead--Cascades
JoAnne Carner--Rolling Green
Sandra Palmer/Carol Mann--Atlantic City
Jay Sigel--Pine Valley
Ben Crenshaw--The Country Club, Brookline
Hubert Green--Cherry Hills
Curtis Strange--Brookline

Naturally, it will have a strong visual element with pictures and perhaps a video CD/DVD of great holes and championship moments.

I will have a best of section:
long and short par 3s, 4s, and 5s
bunkering
green complex
best composite 18
championship moment

We could possibly poll the members of this site and use the results for the book, while including the above golfers and club members.

As I see more courses on the ground, it will be easier to select the cover photos.  I agree it should be holes that attract interest (gotta consider sales) with visual and historical appeal.  Appreciate current suggestions and look forward to others weighing in.  I am open-minded and, as always, appreciate all comments.  Tom, I enjoyed speaking with you last night and look forward to getting together soon!

Thank you

[wsmorrison]

I agree that Merion should not really be considered for cover photo/art.  Not pure Flynn.  Shinnecock's clubhouse high on a hill, say above the 9th green (is there a hole like that anywhere?  Jim Finegan loves it, and rightly so).  Not sure about the angles...but could be.  Then from coastline to hillside....The Cascades, kinda like that notion.  Also like the CC-Brookline, so much has happened there and it looks great in the Fall.  Cherry Hills, 1st tee, another great idea!

Let's hear more.

[Rory Connaughton]

Although somewhat more obscure than those mentioned above, #10 at Lancaster has to be one of his best

[Bronco]

You might consider #16 at Shinnecock Hills, a par-5 that had the pros totally perplexed in '95.  The serpentine fairway and old clubhouse in the background is surely one of the great views in American golf.

[Craig_Rokke]

Wayne-
Making the headfirst leap into a project of this magnitude
must have been a huge decision for you. I know you play at
a Flynn course, but may I ask how you arrived at the decision
to write the book? I'm really looking forward to it!

[Patrick_Mucci]

WSM,

I'm with JakaB on this one.

The historical significance of both shots has appeal, as do the holes themselves, especially in the context of the opening and closing pictures.

It seems like a good idea.

[BillV]

#7 at Shinnecock is a Raynor hole.    I suggest #11 Shinnecock instead, the world's shortest par 5.

How about Lehigh #10 from behind the green?  ws, if you haven't been up yet, let me know. (To Lehigh)

[wsmorrison]

Bill,
Thanks for the invite.  I emailed you a reply.
Best,
Wayne

[Rob_Waldron]

The view from #9 tee at Manufacturers Golf & Country Club looking down the fairway towards the clubhouse is one of the prettiest pictures in golf. The view from #1 tee down into the valley does not suck either. I am sure the super Doug Larson(who is active on this site) could provide the photos.

[wsmorrison]

Thanks Rob, I hope he does.  Everyone's suggestions are most appreciated.
WSM

[George Pazin]

wsmorrison -

If you knew how many people have requested that someone write a book on Flynn, you would see that your thanks are not needed - everyone else will be thanking you plenty. Look forward to seeing your work - hope you're quicker than Gib & George Bahto.  

[bakerg (Guest)]

wsmorrison,

Any word on how your Flynn book is coming along?

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