[TEPaul]

"Suffice it to say , the planting of trees on #2 and #5 has significantly changed the lines of play off the tee and the challenges at the green from what they were in 1926. If we went back to those options you would probably see these holes as quite different."

Mayday:

Would you like to see those trees on the left of #5 fairway removed or wouldn't you?

[mike_malone]

 Tom,

   There are two nice oaks I would keep, but otherwise I agree.

[Mike_Cirba]

Tom Paul,

As "Mr. Accuracy" of this board, can you tell us where you aim your tee shots on the 2nd and 5th at RG?

[Joe Hancock]

HE THOUGHT EVERYONE OF THEM WAS GOOFY

Mike,

You made my day! You don't know me well enough yet to know that I consider the term "GOOFY" as a very high compliment!

Joe

(insert emoticon with goofy smile here!)

[TEPaul]

"Tom Paul,
As "Mr. Accuracy" of this board, can you tell us where you aim your tee shots on the 2nd and 5th at RG?"

Aim my tee shots?? I don't AIM my tee shots. I just try to be sure that I'm actually going to proceed in somewhat the same direction as the green and on the tee I just try to keep the ball somewhat on the same hole I'm playing.

When I was playing well,though, I used to aim at a single blade of grass out there about 231 and then I'd just haul off and swing as hard as possible just to get the ball that far. Most of the time I was a yard or two short or a yard or too long but I was always pretty much in line with that blade of grass.

But now I certainly can't see a blade of grass out there at 231. I can hardly tell where the fairway is anymore. Maybe I should take up JARTS, but you say it's been banned in the US of A?

[rgkeller]

When did GC put a deep bunker behind the thirteenth green?

[John Gosselin]

"I think the only problem with that type of "anti-strategy" is that you only fool the golfer once."

"After trying the left hand route once and getting burned, one would never intentionally flirt with the bunkers off the tee again but instead play out to the more open, if longer, right hand side."

Mike Cirba, you might be giving golfers to much credit for not being fooled more than once or for not being able to resist temptation. The thrill of cutting the corner on a dogleg and having a shorter approach shot into the green, no matter how bad the angle, is just to hard for some of us to resist.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Pat

I assume you have played GCGC hundreds of times.  Do those holes you mention still  decieve YOU?  If so, how and why?

Yes, they do, because you can't get a visual on the location of the hole from the approaching fairway, and as such, doubt and deception remain in play.[/color]

A corollary question--if architecture only deceives the first time or chronically naive golfer, is it good or just a tour de force?  

I think Ed Getka's response was on target.

However, there are several factors that come into play.
# 1.   Some people don't learn by experience.
# 2    Some people don't have the vision to see or
         understand the conspiracy of the features.

Hence, it's not a one time deception, but a continual deception until the golfers learning curve hits critical mass, and, some golfer's learning curves never hit critical mass.
Just look at TEPaul.[/color]

Alternatively, if there is a feature which confuses even the long-time player, is it good, or just inherently deceitful?
Once the deceit is gone, and the golfer clearly understands the conspiracy of features, he still has to properly assess and execute an uncomfortable approach.  And, his decision will vary from day to day based upon his assessment of his game from the 1st tee to the approach on # 10 and # 13.

The approach on # 10 can be from a long distance which places greater pressure upon the decision and execution.
The approach on # 13 is much shorter, but, the realistic desire to make birdie is much higher.

An observant golfer has an advantage on # 10 in that he can see exactly where the hole is located when he plays # 7, however, no such advance info is available when playing # 13.[/color]

RGKeller,

You've been gone from GCGC for so long that you've probably forgotten that the 13th fairway and green cant from high right to low left and that a deep bunker, which has been there since before we were born, sits at the rear right of the green.

Since most second shots are deflected left, the rear right bunker comes into the line of play.

In addition, since the green cants from high right to low left approaches tend to be hit to the right to follow that slope in order to get closer to the hole, thus bringing the bunker more into play.

If you'll open up your copy of, "The Garden City Golf Club - A History"  and look up the 13th hole you'll see pictures from behind the 13th green that reveal the bunker that you were unaware of.    

If you don't have a copy handy, a quick view of Google Earth will provide you with the information you seem to have forgotten.

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