[Daryl "Turboe" Boe]

OK so that subject thread might be a little over the top, and certainly debatable, but depending on your definition you could make the case, and besides it got you to look in here didn't it.

I posted something earlier today that kind of got buried in the middle of the ever expanding Best New thread and just kind of got lost.  As the evening went along I reflected on some of what I kind of stumbled upon today and it struck me as being even more amazing than I originally thought.  Again I kind of accidently stumbled across this, but if you think about it the fact is amazing.  I am going to repost and plagerize some of that post for those of you who didnt see it there...

Since Golf Digest went to their current format of Best New Affordable Public, Upscale Public, and Private back in 1996, there has only been one architect that has won in each of those categories.  Who is it?

Tom Fazio.......You might think so, but you would be wrong.
Jack Nicklaus.........The Bear has a lot of records in golf (at least for a few more years, Tiger), but not this one.
Rees, or Pete Dye....Not even close.
And its not our beloved C&C, or Doak, or anyone that gets much mention here.  It is Jim Engh.

I was happy to see Jim Engh complete his "Career Grand Slam" if you will.  Adding BNU to his BNP & BNA from the past.  Although I guess to be technical one should also win BN Canadian to really have the true Grand Slam.

Obviously Jim has made a nice name for himself building affordable public tracks on moderate (note I did not say low) bugets, and exhibiting a nack for coming in usually almost exactly on buget.  After the big splash of Sanctuary (which is about as private and exclusive as you can get) he has been more known for his affordable tracks, Redlands, and Hawktree in North Dakota (which I think could have just as easily won instead of getting 2nd a couple years ago had more people seen it).  

You dont automatically think of Jim Engh when you think of Huge Upscale Public Facilities.  In fact I usually think of him as being able to make a great and dramatic golf course without always having the bugets that the Fazios, Jacks, or Rees have to work with.  Isnt it somewhat fitting then that his winning the Upscale category this year comes on a course with greens fees of $60-70 which depending on the part of the country you are in isnt that "Upscale" compared to many on there with +$100 greensfees.

I have often wondered why there has been so little discussion of Engh's work here on GCA.  I can only think that it must be attributed to the relative small number of course in his portfolio compared to some golf factories that turn out numerous courses each year.  I do not know for sure, but if I had to guess I would think that Engh's company must turn out 2-3 courses a year.  Maybe we can get Jim to come on here and either confirm or elaborate on this.  Another reason might be the relative remoteness of most of his work.  Obviously all the mainline NE folks have never had the chance to see his work in person unless you have logged some fairly serious miles.

Again although I would not label Jim Engh a minimalist, I also think he is pursuing the kind of golf courses that most folks here on this discussion group can appreciate.  He does what many have espoused and that is take on projects that may not have the super high dollar bugets and create some very interesting courses that people can actually afford to play.  I think as I mentioned above the bunkering with the grass faces may not be quite as flashy as some, but they have to be easier and cheaper to maintain in the long run as well.  Again I do not know if this was his reasoning for doing these style of bunkers on some of the more affordable courses he did early on, but again maybe we can get him on here to comment on some of this.

I have heard rumors that he has looked in on our humble little group here, and I hope that we can entice him to join our little family and provide some insight.  You certainly cant deny from his recent track record that Jim Engh is a influential if sometimes little known member of the architecture community.  Ran maybe we can get him for one of your patented interviews sessions.

[Mike_Cirba]

Turboe;

Jim Engh had indeed checked in here in the past, and contributed a few of his thoughts this past winter.  

I'd certainly enjoy hearing his detailed ideas here when he's able because it seems clear that his courses are very popular with those who've played them, as evidenced by the GD raters.

Unfortunately, I haven't, and although he seems to move a LOT of earth in creating his features, I'm curious to learn what differentiates his courses.  I sense he is fastidious about getting the details right.  

[Brad Klein]

I don't need to speak for Engh, as I think he can account for himself very well, here and elsewhere - and he would be a great GCA interview.

I've learned his approach during several trips with him t/o the Western US. He's also been to both Archipaloozas, which suggests he's open minded about how othesr approach design. But he is rare among modern designers in commiting everything - every contour, every swale and every grade change - to paper plans in advance. This facilitates easy bidding and makes construction possible on budget. He's certainly not a minimalist - actually, nobody is. But more important is that contrary to much that is preached here on GCA, he envisions and designs on paper and then builds according to plan. That alone is worth taking seriously. If you are an owner or developer, it's also reassuring from a budget/timetable standpoiit.

I leave it to others whether they think that with Engh's work this makes for fine, strategically interesting golf courses. I happen to think it does, and I also think he's vastly underestimated because he's unusually meticulous in his planning. I can think of some fine modern designers who improvise rather well, and I can think of some big-name architects who purport to plan in detail and whose work is awful. I'm basing this on having seen, played and written about most of his better-known works, including Sanctuary, RedHawk, Redlands Mesa (all in Colo.), Hawktree (N.D.), Tullymore (Mich.), Black Rock (Id) and Portmarnock Hotel (Ireland).

[Daryl "Turboe" Boe]

Mike,

I must have missed that back last winter, I dont get on here as much as I used to.

However the "Great Carolina Ice Storm of 2002" has given me a little office time these last couple days.  I think I have posted more in the last two days than I have in the two months before that.

[Joel_Stewart]

I spoke with Jim yesterday and he was obviously very happy.  He was also quick to point out that his crew, the super, the owners of Tullymore and even the head pro had alot to do with the success of Tullymore.

It is impressive that he has won in every catagory (since 1997) and maybe surprising that he doesn't get the press like other successful architects.

Being the ever present businessman he also was quick to pump up his new course private course in Idaho which he thinks is one of his best efforts.  Keep an eye out for The Club at Black Rock in Coeur d'Alane which just opened and will be on the best new ballot next year.

[Mike Nuzzo]

Brad,
I don't know Jim's work or his methods so I can't really say where that discipline came from.
But he did work for Mr. Joe Finger.  It would be interesting to hear if any of his influences are with him today.
Ken and Baxter share the same attention to detail (on paper and in the field).
Cheers.

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