[ForkaB]

Mr. Mucci

I trust you.  I haven't played the hole enough times to really argue.  I would like to hear from Mr. Shooter and/or his pal, however.

Mr. Kelly

I did misread your post.  Sorry.  However, I do disagree with your premise that

"(There are plenty of holes that don't test your game on every shot. Tens of thousands of them, I'd guess.)"

I can't think of one.

[Patrick_Mucci]

ForkaB,

I don't know the exact square footages, but the 3rd and 6th green seem similar to me.  Not in their internal contouring, or location relative to the arc of one's shot, but in size.

And, I think that size is what allows them to have the "greens within greens" feature that is so unique.

I too would be interested to hear from others who have played the course a number of times.

Let me also say, that it took some time before I arrived at my current position.  It grows on you with play.

[smurphy]

guys, I dunno, no one finished 30th in the '95 open. places were
1
2
3
4
10
13
21
28
36
44
45
52
57
63
67
70
71
and 73.
as listed, mike hulbert is in the 30 place. from what i have heard he could fill up the 'alter ego and regional slang' post all by himself.  

[Will E]

Pat,
I agree that 3 does grow on you. I think you'll agree it may require a bit more luck than someone who plays for a living might have.
I'm not sure I agree with your take on the multiple tee shot options, perhaps I just don't drive it straight enough to have the right side as a play.
I couldn't argue with someone who thinks the second shot in is a bit goofy. The green though is wonderful, and a true challenge to putt on if you've misjudged your line.
TEP,
I'll disagree that a great hole has to have some "controversialness" to it to be considered great. There are many holes just past the "line" behind the 10th tee at NGLA that are just plain great.

[TEPaul]

Patrick:

Your description of NGLA's #3 was marvelous--I couldn't have described better; you even explained a few things I wasn't aware of! Now I don't have to bother to explain the hole in detail to ForkaB!

If he or Shooter cannot now see where the line is between the great and the goofy, then they will just have to be consigned forever to that odd problem of seeing the sprawl of LA where it does not remotely exist!

[ForkaB]

Thank you Mssrs. redanman and Mucci

I am still not 100% convinced on the "greatness" of a blind shot to a Rhode Island sized green, but you each make an heroic argument in its favor.

[redanman]

ForkaB

OK  Maybe we'll look at it together someday

But i do have to say that i fell in love with its charms from day one.  I also saw the hole before I played it that same day.  Having toured NGLA completely before playing it really was a treat.  (And I have played it atleast 20 times.)

[redanman]

His thoughts were that NGLA was tricked up, had too many blind shots and luck was too much of a factor.

Here is the crux of the matter as to what defines golf for each of us.

To use the card and pencil mentality NGLA is definitely a favorite of the match play crowd and abhored by a player obsessed with "fairness" (How I abhor that concept as regards golf!!!!) and not losing a single stroke.

A propos this week....Can you imagine Q-school at NGLA with old ball dynamics?  Suicide city.  Another case or PGATour golf replacing golf as the standard.

This is the core of the arguement of whether NGLA is great or more specifically whether a particular quirky hole s great.  Is redan unfair because you can't (Most of the time) fly a ball to a spot, spin and stop it?

Putting off #1 is nearly always a possibility?

Hitting the wrong tier on #11?

Stopping a ball anywhere on #12 anytime especially downwind?

Having a doubly blind shot on #16?

How well do you handle circumstance out of your control?
That's what makes NGLA and all its glorious excesses great, hole after hole.

[cary lichtenstein]

great gets your heart pounding, like a beautiful woman!

[Ronan_Branigan]

Maybe the difference between 'great and goofy' is the perception of the person playing that hole. I am from Ireland and I am a member of a links course called Co. Louth. I have played the majority of my golf on links courses and find that they, dare I say, offer the ultimate in golfing experience. Part of their appeal is the quirky blind shot that relies on luck than on pure golfing prowess. According to all the past master architects, variety is the soul of the game. Therefore, I think that the odd blind shot is acceptable. Futhermore, maybe the question that you asked runs deeper into what is now acceptable by the golfing fraternity in regard to design and maybe that is a reason why some modern courses lose their appeal after a number of years unlike the greats such as Royal Portrush, Rosses Point etc:?

[TEPaul]

Ronan:

No doubt about it!

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