[Tim Weiman]

Recently, I stumbled upon an interesting picture in Geoff Shackelford's "Golden Age of Golf Design". On p. 179, Geoff shows an old picture of #6 at Pebble Beach with some fairway bunkers near the top of the hill one plays over on the second shot.

Unless, my memory really stinks, they aren't there today. Instead, others have been placed well to the left on the side of the fairway having much less impact on play and presenting far less drama from the tee than this picture depicts.

What is the story here? What happened? Why was this change made? Who did it? Who built the bunkers I'm talking about? Has restoring them ever been discussed? Wouldn't it make the hole more interesting?

[brad miller]

Tim, checked the book and yes you seem to right, old carry bunkers where today they are only in play if one plays a long second shot well  away from the cliff. Don't have the "History of Pebble Beach"? which might shed some light.

[Tim Weiman]

Brad:

I'm amazed that so little is known about this change on one of the world's best known courses. In a private e mail Geoff Shackelford said that the bunkers I'm talking about were by Egan, but he doesn't know when they were removed.

Real shame, in my view. I really wish someone could explain why the change was made.

[A_Clay_Man]

Tim- The bunker that does exist on the left runs from about 115 to 60 yards in. This bunker is totally in play and is just on the fairways edge. It is a good safe spot to aim for if one is in fear of the right cliff. Most of this bunker is invisible but the front left side can be seen from most vantage points.

I don't have Geoffs book so I can't see the Picture, But, I find it hard to imagine having an actual cross bunker acrsoos the top of the hill. Not that it wouldn't be in keeping with Neville's design but that it would make the shot virtually impossible for 99.9% of golfers.

Perhaps the bunker on the leftside of the fairway down the hill was added and then this upper left side bunker would appear to be a cross bunker? But I do not know. I have always felt that those island bunkers(below) were not in keeping with anything else on the course so maybe they were added.

[Tim Weiman]

Adam,

My hunch is along the lines you suggest, that Egan's bunkers were too intimidating or difficult for a large percent of the people playing Pebble Beach.

Still, I think it is a shame and also wonder if the defense of the green might be tied into Egan's bunkers creating an incentive to play over the bunkers (by making the left side much tougher/right side easier to come in from).

To go back and restore Egan's bunkers might require many people playing the hole from less distance, maybe up some 20-40 yards. What would you think of that?

[A_Clay_Man]

Tim- I really don't see that. Maybe if the cross bunkers were closer to the green? I doubt they would be intimadating because you can't see them from anywhere but the tee. You can't even see the green and most good players try to reach in two, depending on thier drive. Now, asuming in the olden days it was a must three shotter (even for the longest hitters) trying to pinpoint the distance from down below and land before the cross bunkers would be a task I wouldn't want too often. So, once again I can't imagine where those cross bunkers would've been but I can imagine the existing one being more in play and acting like a crossbunker if the fairway below was farther left.

Maybe I'm not reading you correctly but that's how I see it and believe you me, that green is only reachable with an accurate shot and both greenside bunkers do a good job of collecting the slight misses.

[Tim Weiman]

Adam:

I was thinking about the 15 handicapper, not the guy reaching this green in two. For the sratch player, you're absolutely right, it doesn't make sense.

[Tim Weiman]

Adam:

Just to be clear, I'm thinking about the word Geoff Shackelford uses to describe strategy. Geoff likes to use the word "tempt".

I suspect that the Egan bunkers were removed becuase they were too difficult for the mid handicapper. But, what if you changed both the green defense and the tee placement. What if you made a third shot approach much easier from the right and placed the tee at a distance where most players would be left with a second shot that made them think (i.e., tempt them) about bailing out left or playing more aggressively to set up the easier (right side) approach. This scheme probably wouldn't work for the big hitters but might make it more interesting for most players.

I suggest this configuration because I don't know what else Egan might have been thinking.

[A_Clay_Man]

Tim, that hill is so steep that most 15 handicappers need to hit a career shot just to get close to the top of it in two. And if they hit a poor drive the lower left corner of the fairway is the smart play. Now they have a completly blind shot 185 ish up the hill to the green and to top it all off they have no idea where that green is. I don't see where there will be any tempting and as for the right side. There is not that much room over there and there's a slight drop off from the fairway.

I wonder if the reason noone has ever heard about the changes that you speculate on if they ever really occurred, or that they occurred way back when Egan tweaked the place and before that it was just too silly or impossible for anyone to have any fun.

I personally love the sixth hole and call it "the start of heaven". It is clearly a hole one can make any number from a 2 to 12 on.

[A_Clay_Man]

Also, Changing the tee was probably never an option, considering where the old fifth hole was. And there use to be some beautiful live oaks on the left up near the forward teeing ground but sadly no more. Imagine that there is no cart path and the hillside that is left of the exsisting cart path was part of the hole. Then the bunker that is up the hill and still there is the cross bunker you refer to. Perhaps?

[JWL>]

Tim

I'll try to shed some light on the bunkers that were in the slope. I was told that Sandy Tatum suggested they be removed and the linear bunker on the left side be added.
If you look closely when standing on the men's tee, you can see the shape in the grass.
When we were making some bunker changes in 1997, Jack suggested that Pebble Beach Company restore the bunkers in the slope.  There is an old yardage book that has a picture of the bunkers in the middle of it.
Hope this helps a little.

[brad_miller]

Jim, did you agree with JN, (might this restoration further slow play?) If it was Sandy that suggested the changes it must have been done in the 60's- 70's? With the new ownership group and the work going on at CPC and completed at SFGC with their many overlapping members maybe it's time to revisit this option?

[A_Clay_Man]

Thanx JWL. You saved me a call to an elderly gentleman who might've remembered.

I'd suggest that having bunkers in the middle of that slope would make things easier for the higher handicap or really any caliber player. Why? Because as it is today the long rough is extremely penal for anyone who doesn't know to aim way right due to the huge pull one gets from hitting out of deep rough on an uphill lie. Plus there must be a danger to running equiptment on that hillside.

Also, I don't see how having a bunker there tempts anybody to do anything different than do today. Other than throwing thier clubs off the cliff.

[Tim Weiman]

Adam Clayman:

If these bunkers were restored, it would have to be part of a package of changes. Sure, if there is very penal rough on the left, implementing the old cross bunkers wouldn't make much strategic sense. I'd rather see fairway maintained on the left, but a much more challenging approach from that side.

In the past, we have identified #18 at Pebble as possibly a hole helped by technology. Years ago it was clearly a three shot hole for almost everyone; today many players can have a go at it. However, I can't see how technology has done anything but hurt #6. The big hill doesn't present any challenge for long hitters. I can't imagine positioning cross bunkers anywhere that would create more interest for them. As you have pointed out, putting them closer to the green would make them blind and kind of goofy, I think.

But, what about the man who hits 220-230 yard tee shots. Couldn't something be done to create more thought required on the second shot? Couldn't Egan's bunkers be part of the equation, along with some of the other things I mentioned?

I'm sure you have a much better sense of how the hole plays than my limited experience of playing it 5-6 times, but I still can't help wondering what else Egan had in mind.

Jim Lipe:

Thanks. I wonder if Jack expressed his reasons for wanting to restore the bunkers? Surely, he didn't have the professional in mind.

Guys:

It sure would be nice to have Sandy Tatum join us to explain his thoughts on this topic.......and I'm sure, many more!

[A_Clay_Man]

Tim- Of the small percentage of golfers who actually think... and then those that are on the 6th...
My experience has been that this is one spot where people really do have to think.

Lets walk through it, i'll use me as a source for reference. I hit a good avg. drive, I have 250 remaining up the hill. It will usually require a shot of approx 175 yds to get to the 100 yard mark which is only 150 away, wind & slope accounting for the additional. The 100 yd mark is at the very beginning of the upper fairway cut. So, I can try to hit my 175 club but any slight miss and i fail to reach short grass or I can hit 3 wood and if I get lucky(which I have) reach or come very close. Either way there is ample risk and serious challenge. What really is important is which side of the fairway you are on because the subelties are this. On most of the fairway and especially the right side the fairway has a downhill lie aspect to it. This can cause many things to happen and most of them are not good. 99% fail to notice the downhil lie. I have seen so many be intimadated by this shot that they want to lay up to the left lower corner which still leaves an incredibly difficult and intimadating shot. But that's what they want, sobeit. If I hit a bad drive, this lay-up is the logical move. If I hit a great drive and have 215 left I still have this daunting blind uphill shot to try and reach. Most will not even consider laying up from 215 and will be tempted to go for it, which is the right decision because the green is demanding and playing a half shot in, for most, is too difficult. Also, Many a ball can be found long of the green in the tall grasses that make up the hillside on seven. So, judging the accurate distance is very difficult.

Perhaps Egan was trying to get the cross carry in because it is such a re-ocuring theme throughout Neville's design? IMO the steep hill provides that and adding those bunkers was therefore redundant. Hence removal

[Tim Weiman]

Adam:

Thanks for your thoughtful input. It would be interesting to hear Egan and Tatum (who might have agreed with you) debate your point about the bunkers being redundant.

[Bob_Huntley]

I have just finished a telephone chat with Sandy Tatum and he reported as follows. Back in 1968 he was asked by the then GM of the Pebble Beach Co. to restore PB to its prior glory. The course was in lousy shape. He called upon Jack Neville to help him out.

He says that there was no Egan cross bunker in front of the green at the top of the rise. They did move the bunker that was left, further toward the brow of the hill, so that it could be seen by the players below.

As for the sixth hole he states that tha

[Bob_Huntley]

Oops, sorry. Delete the last line, that was a Rich Goodale with a half gainer.

[A_Clay_Man]

Don't stop now Bob! How many years did you do vaudeville? I want more. But really, Thanx for the call to the solicitor. I hope, as we all do I'm sure, that your conversation was primarily about golf.

Kidding aside, any word on that 18th hole bunker? I'm still not positive I know where it is. I was told it was at the tree with the Vee in it. Which I believe meant to the right of the existing bunker but still on a similar line from the tee, just shorter or closer to the tee. Is that close?

Hungry 'former local' minds want to know.

[John_D._Bernhardt]

Adam you are so right about the bunker being in play. I do wish they would bring it nearere the cliff and more to the way it was for visual effect.

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