[Matt Schulte]

I know that many of the holes were changed last year.  Some more dramatically than others.  But, the changes made to the 18th green surround is in my opinion a horrible move.

I can only assume that these changes were made for pace of play and for playability reasons for the average 18 handicapper.  My memory of that green was that it was beautifully obscured from view behind dunes and beach grass when standing in the fairway.  It was, especially by Pete Dye standards, very natural looking.  Now it is surrounded with fairway and more traditional Pete Dye bunkers on the left.  

I am curious if the rest of you feel this was as bad a change as I do.

[Matt Kardash]

i only saw a picture that Mike Vegis put up...from what i saw it looked alright....i havent got to play it, so what do i know?

[Mike_Cirba]

Matt;

Never having seen the original green complex at TOC (The Ocean Course...have to watch my acronyms ), I have a tough time comparing it except to say that philosophically, the somewhat blind look is something that I'm sure I would have loved.

I also mentioned a personal sadness that no one would ever again get to attempt the "Langer putt", the five-footer of possibly the most enormous pressure in the history of the game.

All of that being said, I think they did a nice job with the green location, particularly since it's now more important than ever to attempt to challenge the deep right hand bunkering and gunk in an effort to gain an advantageous positioning for the approach shot.  The diagonal shaping of that green, as well as the deep pot to the front left, make it worth the risk so I can't say I'm displeased at the way the hole plays at all.  The oceanside backdrop also is visually pleasing, and I understand Dye wanted the green there originally so in my mind it's probably a wash.

[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

Here's a link to some before and after shots that we've put together:

http://proshop.kiawahresort.com/beforeafter.html

I would say it's probably about 1/4 shot more difficult now than it was before since it's about 6 yards longer and elevated.  The first few times I've played it I had a 4-iron, 3-wood, 2-iron and 4-iron into the green (but I was into the wind).

[Mike Benham]

Visually, the lack of native grasses around the new bunkers gives a more open appearance.  I like the look and challenge of the grasses around the bunkers ...

[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

It takes a full summer growing season for such grasses to come in...

[Matt Kardash]

you guys have to remember that it takes time for it to look a little scruffy...wait a year and then say what you gotta say..obviously it looks different, this green is 3 months old, the rest of the course is 11 years old

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