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Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
"Big Three Golf"
« on: November 30, 2002, 08:10:16 PM »
from November 29th GolfWorld, interesting piece that says the all-new "Big Three Golf" will concentrate on their design careers.

>Three's company: "Big Three Golf," one of the original made-for-TV events dating back to the 1960s, is returning next April. The program, featuring Arnold Palmer, Jack Nicklaus and Gary Player, won't quite be the playing exhibition it was 40 years ago. Instead, one industry source said, the show will have a playing element while centering predominantly on their design careers. It will be taped in the Houston area, where all three have course designs -- Nicklaus and Palmer at The Woodlands, and Player in Montgomery.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

Slag_Bandoon

Re: "Big Three Golf"
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2002, 07:25:04 PM »
 I wonder what the motive is for this and who's producing it.  Is it self-promotion or altruistic education?  It sounds like a start for golf architecture discussion to get onto the video airwaves but "centering primarily on THEIR design careers" seems like grandstanding. What? A golf archy grandstanding? Never!

 I hope I'm wrong.  

  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Mike_Cirba

Re: "Big Three Golf"
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2002, 08:02:13 PM »
I have a hunch that the original "Big Three" program can rest easy that it won't be usurped on much besides hyperbole if the topic is the GREAT courses each of these men designed.

How long is it scheduled for...15 minutes? ;)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Paul Richards

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Re: "Big Three Golf"
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2002, 09:06:43 PM »
Mike:

Unfortunately, I'm still waiting for the first "great" course designed by Gary Player. :-[
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

Mike_Cirba

Re: "Big Three Golf"
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2002, 09:26:25 PM »
Paul;

Me too, and i'm hoping it's a mile from my house.  

Gary Player is evidently now working with Warren Henderson (of Arcadia Bluffs fame) as his lead designer, and they are completely redesigning a course that was known as Eagle Lodge, expected to open next year.  

His work with others that I've seen is VERY disappointing and almost humorously bad.  Palmer at least has a few courses that are very good mixed with a lot of mundane stuff, and Jack has some great ones but not a great batting average.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Craig_Rokke

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Re: "Big Three Golf"
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2002, 09:35:06 PM »
Mike-
The publicity machine for the ACE course seems to be starting to turn. Even some discussion from within about wanting to attract tournament play. Have you caught a glimpse of the place yet?

(Can you see any of these guys, on a course of their own design,  discreetly seeking strategic advise from their caddy :) )
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Mike_Cirba

Re: "Big Three Golf"
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2002, 09:41:28 PM »
Craig;

As tempted as I've been to drive over there, I thought I'd wait til spring.

Yes, they are trying to hype it as some type of tour or major event site, but that's literally preposterous as you and I know, particularly in this neighborhood.

Still, I've heard good things about Henderson's work in Michigan, so I'm at least hopeful that the new course (called ACE Resort and Conference Center, I believe) will be worthwhile since it's on a really good property.

Interestingly, the original Eagle Lodge course, an early 1974 Rees Jones one, was rather good in stretches and one of my favorites of his.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Craig_Rokke

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Re: "Big Three Golf"
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2002, 09:53:22 PM »
I had always heard pretty good things about the course, too.
Is my recollection correct that this will be the 3rd course installment for that tract of land? I believe a course may have
originally been built there in the twenties.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Matt Dupre

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Re: "Big Three Golf"
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2002, 08:05:13 AM »
I'd bet money that Terry Jastrow and Jack Nicklaus Productions is behind the Big Three concept. ;)  They were part of the Shell's Wonderful World of Golf revival.

As for the ACE Club, I got a chance to walk around it in the fall, and it looks like nothing Player ever did, or re-did, that I'm aware of.  It fits the land, which has a lot of movement and some significant elevations, and has an "old" feel (hard to put into words, but go 180 degrees from Jasna Polana....)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Mike_Cirba

Re: "Big Three Golf"
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2002, 08:10:59 AM »
MDupre;

That's wonderful news about ACE Club.  Thanks for the report.  

After playing Jasna Polana, 180 degrees away from it is a good place to go!!  Gotta love those blind chipping areas protected by bunkers!  We were hysterical!  ;D

Craig;

Yes, before Rees built Eagle Lodge in 1974, there was a previous course on the site (trying unsuccessfully to recall the name now) but I know nothing about it.

Interestingly, Talamore at Oak Terrace in Horsham is another course where 3 completely different courses have been built on it over the years, going back to 1910.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:12 PM by -1 »
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Scott_Burroughs

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Re: "Big Three Golf"
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2002, 08:42:41 AM »
Next year's President's Cup will be held at the Gary Player-designed Links course at Fancourt, a posh resort in South Africa, that looks to have some potential based on the pics from the home page:

http://www.fancourt.co.za/golffs.htm

and course tour:

http://www.fancourt.co.za/linksCrs.htm

We shall see.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Paul Richards

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Re: "Big Three Golf"
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2002, 03:57:28 PM »
Dave:

I just played the Player course at Geneva National myself this summer and, like you, thought it was OK, but it is nothing I would suggest to GCA and all of the experts of architecture here!

It has a few pretty holes, and, as I think I shot about a 76, didn't find it very difficult.

But, alas, I have yet to find a Gary Player-designed course worthy of anyone's top 100 list! :-[ :'( :P ::) :-[
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

JWL>

Re: "Big Three Golf"
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2002, 05:25:47 PM »

[quote author=Mike_Cirba


      OUCH!!!!!!!!!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Mike_Cirba

Re: "Big Three Golf"
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2002, 06:23:13 PM »
Jim Lipe;

Ok, perhaps I was in a pretty ornery mood when I posted, and perhaps I was thinking mostly about the courses designed by Arnie's and particularly Gary Player's firms.

But, let me explain how I'm defining the term "great".  In my mind, it's a term that's bandied about way too liberally, and although I believe that most of Jack Nicklaus's 200-300 golf courses are good to very good, only a dozen or so are "great".  

Given the enviable name, a lot of GREAT sites, really advantageous budgets, and what I assume is some pretty carte blanche decision-making authority given to him by clients, I would think his batting average should be higher.  

Personally, I believe that Jack started strong, went pretty awry with some heavy containment, visual dramatics, and other unnatural features for awhile, and in the last decade has produced some of his very best work.  I also hope that his style continues to evolve and that he continues to expand his philosophy.

I hope this helps explain my comment.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Paul Richards

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Re: "Big Three Golf"
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2002, 05:41:07 AM »
Mike,

I agree with most of your sentiments.  Arnie, the King, unfortunately hasn't produced a lot of great golf courses, IMHO.  Bay Hill is by far his best, and yet it wasn't his original design.

Gary, as I stated above, has yet to produce any "great" golf courses that I have seen.

Jack's designs range from the awful to some of the best, although, as you infer, a lot of it is just eye-candy.  I think he may have hit his stride with the Bear's Club, a course which I liked obviously a lot more than some here on GCA.  To me, you no longer had to play a high-fade to enjoy this course (of course, I play a low-draw, so I haven't had much success on his courses!).  The Bear's Club was much more fair in that draws worked on some holes, and fades on others.

If the "trend is your friend", then Jack may on the right track!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Logged
"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG
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