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Tom MacWood (Guest)

Masterworks
« on: December 13, 2002, 06:39:45 AM »
Colt said that Swinley Forest was his least bad course or something along that line. I would think that Macdonald felt NGLA was his masterpiece. Did MacKenzie feel Cypress Point was his greatest effort? Ross and Pinehurst #2? What about other famous architects or not so famous architects (Tillie, Flynn, Simpson, Thompson, RTJ, Dye, Fazio, Nicklaus, Rees) -- what did they, or do they, consider their greatest single design?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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redanman

Re: Masterworks
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2002, 07:09:45 AM »
Fazio's Masterpiece is always the last one completed (For the sales brochure)-no disrespect for the greatest living architect intended.

My guess is that Jack would tap Muirfield Village, but his best work is either remarkably consistent or repetitive or both.

Rees Jones might pick Ocean Forest, I doubt one of the desert courses.

I hope that Dye would pick PGA West!, but I doubt that it would be Harbour Town, Long Cove or one of the massive brutes he has concocted e.g. Bulle Rock).  Perhaps the Golf Club?

As for the dead guys?  What do I know?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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John Foley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Masterworks
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2002, 07:19:21 AM »
Would Pete consider Kiawah, Teeth of the Dog, Sawgrass or Crooked Stick? Or would Pete laugh off the idea that he had a masterpeice?

Would Fazio consider Shadow Creek (or did Wynn have too much to do w/ it?) or possibly Wade Hampton?

Would Coore & Crenshaw pick Sand Hills or Kapalua-Plantation?





« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Integrity in the moment of choice

Jeff Mingay

Re: Masterworks
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2002, 07:29:07 AM »
Vernon Macan considered Shaughnessy in Vancouver his "master work."

Laid out in 1960, Shaughnessy occupies a beautiful piece of rolling ground, along the Fraser River. Reportedly, Macan was given a "free hand" and a healthy budget to do his work.

The course featured wide fairways with centrally located bunkers, and fallaway greens with bold interior contour... then the pros came for the 1966 Canadian Open. Complaints about the greens lead to wholesale changes.

Besides the routing, there's not much Macan left at Shaughnessy as far as I can tell. And the club's on the verge of being awarded another Canadian Open, about 2005 I think.

Poor Macan,. Before completing Shaughnessy he considered his 1924 lay out at Alderwood in Portland to be his best work. The 1937 US Amateur, won by '33 US Open champ Johnny Goodman, was played there. It was the first USGA event to be held in the Pacific Northwest.

What was Alderwood is today a runway at Portland International Airport!  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Masterworks
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2002, 07:38:57 AM »
Until Pacific Dunes came along, Doak felt Stonewall was his best.  He even gave it an '8'.  Though, he could always say otherwise....
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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TEPaul

Re: Masterworks
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2002, 07:50:03 AM »
Pete said Teeth of the Dog was one he was proud of but Alice said the one in California (is that Carmel Valley Ranch?) was their sentimental favorite for some reason. That was probably said over twenty years ago and I definitely never thought to ask why on either one--didn't know or care squat about architecture back then.

Coore & Crenshaw would have to say Sand Hills but who knows with them--they said that was more discovery than anything else. I think Coore is truly high on Friar's Head!

As far as we can see Flynn never said anything--nothing we can find about any of his courses anyway--just built them and that was it--although it appears on some he may have stuck with them for a time!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Paul_Turner

Re: Masterworks
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2002, 08:12:46 AM »
Fowler would have to be Walton Heath.  Not sure if he ever said as much?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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A_Clay_Man

Re: Masterworks
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2002, 08:25:44 AM »
Fazio's should be Pine barrens from what I've seen. The perception that it emulates Pine Valley is the reason for me throwing it out here.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Paul_Turner

Re: Masterworks
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2002, 08:30:25 AM »
Hmmm on second thoughts perhaps Fowler would have been most proud of his redo at Westward Ho!

Simpson?  He has so many drawings of Chiberta Biarritz in his book, then perhaps that was his favourite.  Surely though Morfontaine would fit the bill?  Did he do enough at Ballybunion?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Chris_Clouser

Re: Masterworks
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2002, 08:44:53 AM »
I know Perry Maxwell's favorite work was what he did at Prairie Dunes.  But he was also high on the course at Old Town as well, calling it one of the top 10 courses in the country at the time it was built.  He was also very proud of the work at Dornick Hills, Crystal Downs, and Southern Hills.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Woof (Guest)

Re: Masterworks
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2002, 09:53:12 AM »
Regarding Ross, perhaps Aronimink.  Adjacent to the first tee there is a plaque with a quote attributed to Ross stating something similar to "I intended this to be my masterpiece, but until I saw it I did not know how well I did".  Perhaps an Aronimink member can give us the exact wording.

I regularly play at a Tillinghast course, but have never considered the question, and don't know if he ever did, either.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Ben Cowan-Dewar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Masterworks
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2002, 10:02:52 AM »
Thompson always spoke highly of Banff and Jasper, which is ironic considering St. George's, Highlands Links and Capilano are preferred now.

Geoffrey Cornish said that when Capilano, Jasper, Banff and Cape Breton Highlands Links opened, they were considered the four finest in Canada, if not North America!

Cornish also said that picking a favourite course was like picking a favourite child, therefore refusing to name one.

Hence, the obvious reluctance in naming one your masterpiece.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Dunlop_White

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Masterworks
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2002, 10:13:49 AM »
Donald Ross:
Seminole: Ross said it was not his best, but he liked it very much.
Pinehurst #2 was his pet which he was likely the most attached to.
Oakland Hills: was described as having the best natural terrain to build a course.
But Donald Ross said that he "intended Aronomink to be his masterpiece" Woof is right!

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:12 PM by -1 »
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SPDB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Masterworks
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2002, 10:22:39 AM »
It seems to me that an architect continuously tinkers with a course that he feels might be his legacy.

Ross - Pinehurst
Dye - Ocean, TPC and Teeth
MacD - NGLA

are there others with a long history of continued tinkering by
the arch?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Dunlop_White

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Masterworks
« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2002, 10:24:11 AM »
Perry Maxwell:

Perry Maxwell was quoted in the July 20, 1939 edition of the Winston-Salem Journal. Here, Perry Maxwell described the Old Town Links as one of the seven finest in the nation' and among the Top 3 in the South in 1939. This is quite a compliment considering that Maxwell had previously spent a few years working in conjunction with Alister MacKenzie on other great courses, including Crystal Downs (1933). At this time Maxwell had already designed Southern Hills (1935), and nine holes at Prairie Dunes (1937). He was further hired as a consultant and redesigned existing features at many other renowned courses, including Augusta National [1937-1938]Pine Valley, National Golf Links of America, Maidstone, and others. Thus, Perry Maxwell had seen many legendary courses and was affiliated with some of the best and still gave Old Town this high billing.

Whether he regarded it as his "masterpiece", I do not know. All I know is that he felt it was among the elite in the country.

Dunlop


« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:12 PM by -1 »
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Eric Pevoto

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Masterworks
« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2002, 10:26:05 AM »
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Hugh Wilson felt Merion was his masterwork.  Just a nose ahead of Cobbs.

 ;D

What about Raynor?  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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There's no home cooking these days.  It's all microwave.Bill Kittleman

Golf doesn't work for those that don't know what golf can be...Mike Nuzzo

Michael Dugger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Masterworks
« Reply #16 on: December 13, 2002, 10:55:06 AM »
How about some more opinions on the current state of affairs.

What about Mike Stantz?  Caledonia?
Jeff Brauer?
I would be interested in what someone thinks of Bobby Weed's portfolio.  What is his best work?
What about Tillinghast?  W Foot?  Baltusrol? Bethpage?  A lot of support for SFCC.  Is it San Fran???
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Tom MacWood (Guest)

Re: Masterworks
« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2002, 08:14:23 PM »
I think Willie Park-Jr. intended Huntercombe to be his masterpiece, but late in his career he was most proud of Sunningdale. I think he was disallusioned by Huntercombe's failure as a financial enterprise. After Sunningdale he semed most proud of Mt.Bruno.

I'm not sure about Tillinghast, could it be Bethpage? What about Travis?

For some reason I get the impression that Jasper Park was Thompson's favorite.

I'd also like to know the best courses of George Fazio, William Gordon and Robert von Hagge?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Mike_Cirba

Re: Masterworks
« Reply #18 on: December 13, 2002, 08:43:26 PM »
In the 20s, Tillinghast seemed most proud of Baltusrol, simply based on his advertisements that trumpeted him as "The Creator of Baltusrol".  Of course, this was before Winged Foot, et.al., but he certainly took a great deal of pride in it.

I believe William Gordon was most proud of Saucon Valley, where he and son David built the Grace and Weyhill courses and did some revisions to the Old course.  An aerial of the site was prominently displayed in their office.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Ben Cowan-Dewar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Masterworks
« Reply #19 on: December 13, 2002, 10:02:22 PM »
Tom,
Jasper and Banff were given equal credit to my knowledge.  Interesting that he didn't seem to hold the same affinity for Capilano and St. George's.

This must prove how simply awesome Jasper and Banff were in the 1930s. Though, they are still pretty special today.

BCD
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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