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Brian Phillips

  • Karma: +0/-0
Road Hole bunker changed back...
« on: December 12, 2002, 11:06:41 AM »
I played TOC today and yes it is true the groundstaff have had to start again after all the complaints about what was being done earlier.

My playing partner took pictures of the work and will post them as soon as I get them from him.  The height looked pretty much how it did before but I am sure it is not quite as wide as before.

By the way I 3 putted for a bogey after hitting a great drive over the sheds and then a 3 wood to the green. :'(

Cheers Brian.

ps. It was cold and 20 mph winds!! But was also cheapish 44.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Bunkers, if they be good bunkers, and bunkers of strong character, refuse to be disregarded, and insist on asserting themselves; they do not mind being avoided, but they decline to be ignored - John Low Concerning Golf

Ronan_Branigan

Re: Road Hole bunker changed back...
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2002, 03:01:57 PM »
Hey Brian,

Hope you enjoyed St Andrews and took the fiver from brandon.  sorry to hear you choked on the 17th ... it was a bit like me on the 18th at carnoustie.  sounds like you are the norwegian van de velde.  have a good christmas and i will be in touch shortly.

Ronan
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Road Hole bunker changed back...
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2002, 04:51:38 PM »
Brian:

Glad to hear they are changing it back. :)

It saddened me that they even considered fooling with the road-hole bunker! :'(
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

Steve Wilson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Road Hole bunker changed back...
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2002, 05:08:21 PM »
But if they were planning on returning it to the hazard that faced Doug Sanders in his showdown with Nicklaus, as per Dan Kelly's post which is the most recent on the original thread concerning this bunker, wouldn't that have been a better thing.  Less outright penal but presenting the golfer with two worries, the road and not getting it out onto the green.  Just asking.  I've only played it once and, unlike Tommy Naccarato, I didn't dedliberately hit into it for the experience.

Just food for thought.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Some days you play golf, some days you find things.

I'm not really registered, but I couldn't find a symbol for certifiable.

"Every good drive by a high handicapper will be punished..."  Garland Bailey at the BUDA in sharing with me what the better player should always remember.

Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Road Hole bunker changed back...
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2002, 07:38:51 PM »
Steve:

I thought that watching David Duval struggle so much from that bunker was great theatre. :-[  

It reminded me of the struggles I have from bunkers as well! :'(
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

John_D._Bernhardt

Re: Road Hole bunker changed back...
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2002, 07:44:55 PM »
I wonder if the grounds crew knew the pain that was felt around the world as their shovels moved that most sacred sod. lol
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Andrew Roberts

Re: Road Hole bunker changed back...
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2002, 08:30:10 PM »
From Golf Digest.com
http://www.golfdigest.com/newsandtour/insider/index.ssf?/newsandtour/insider/20021212ropes.html
While nearing the bottom of the page, there is a headline, Road Hole Renovation

This is what No.1 golfer Tiger Woods has to say about the road bunker.

Despite outcries from local residents, Woods applauded recent changes to the "Road Hole Bunker" at No. 17 on the Old Course at St. Andrews.

"I'm in favor of it," he said. "That hole is a great hole, but I think it's only fair if you have that face shallowed up. You saw too many high numbers there."

Doesn't a bunker like that help Tiger seperate himself from the field?





« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Road Hole bunker changed back...
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2002, 08:48:36 PM »
Andrew:

Of course, what you said is true:
>Doesn't a bunker like that help Tiger seperate himself from the field?

That was what seperated Tiger from David Duval, wasn't it?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

Jeremy_Glenn.

Re: Road Hole bunker changed back...
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2002, 08:58:47 PM »
Quote
"I'm in favor of it," he said. "That hole is a great hole, but I think it's only fair if you have that face shallowed up. You saw too many high numbers there."

Didn't a famous architect call that the "card-and-pencil mentality" nearly a hundred years ago?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Gary Smith (Guest)

Re: Road Hole bunker changed back...
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2002, 09:07:10 PM »
Woods had separated himself from Duval long before they reached the road hole.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Mike_Cirba

Re: Road Hole bunker changed back...
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2002, 09:29:12 PM »
The idea that the road might be in play from the bunker if it's made shallower is frankly, silly.  When was the last time you saw any professional "fly" a green from an adjacent bunker.

That might have been a possibility in 1960 or so, largely because there were neither 60-64 degree wedges or the degree of assiduous bunker maintenance that exists today, even on links courses.  

Plus, pics prior to 1960 all seem to indicate a deeper and steeper bunker than in the 60s, 70s time frame.  It's very likely that the bunker was softened sometime in that time period but let's not forget that it was historically known as one of the most hazardous bunkers in the game so talk of "restoration" to 1960 is really being historically selective for purposes of "not making professionals look foolish".

Tiger's comments about "too many high numbers" is indeed indicative of the overriding concern for fairness and equity in medal play scoring.  I've yet to see a ball in the road hole bunker that couldn't be played out left, right, backwards, or courageously and dramatically played to the green.  Any player approaching that green should understand the risk if they challenge a left hand back hole location.  How does that differ from a water hazard on the same hole??

Personally, I'm glad that the bunker is being put back as it was and I can't imagine why anyone would want to see it softened.  As it is, it really is the heart of the strategy on that hole.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Justin_Zook

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Road Hole bunker changed back...
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2002, 10:37:51 PM »
Well put Mr. Cirba!

If the bunker is made easier, a player feels more able to afford a miscue when firing at the pin, and therefore less inclined to use the other, more strategic, routes to the hole.  

Perhaps they should make the island green at Sawgrass bigger?  That would certainly improve the scores, "because too many high numbers are made there."

Tiger can play golf, but he was no Bobby Jones.  

Justin
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
We make a living by what we get...we make a life by what we give.

Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Road Hole bunker changed back...
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2002, 05:02:00 PM »
Justin:

>Tiger can play golf, but he was no Bobby Jones.  


And he IS no Bobby Jones, either! ;)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

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