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Jeff_Lewis

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Argentina
« on: December 04, 2002, 09:27:12 AM »
I understand there is one (or several?) MacKenzie course (s) in Argentina. Does anybody know anything about Buenos Aires area and the courses there? May be headed down this winter.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

ForkaB

Re: Argentina
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2002, 10:54:25 AM »
An esteemed member of this group is playing there as we write.  I assume he will fill us in on his return.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Jeff_Lewis

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Re: Argentina
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2002, 11:02:57 AM »
I'll look forward to a full report.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

SL_Solow

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Re: Argentina
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2002, 11:31:37 AM »
For descriptions see Doak et al recent biography of the Good Doctor
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

NAF

Re: Argentina
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2002, 11:38:06 AM »
Jeff,

there is the Jockey Club in Buenos Aires..they have a website..I believe you can get on and there are golf tour places that can help as well..

In Montevideo there is another Dr. Mac course..Puentas something or other..

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

SteveC

Re: Argentina
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2002, 12:30:17 PM »
Not to discourage you, but The Jockey Club is extremely difficult to get on unless you have a member connection - a good one. Two courses there - Blue and Red - with Red being the attention-getter.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

jeff_lewis (Guest)

Re: Argentina
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2002, 01:34:09 PM »
Steve you sound like you might know the area. What would be your second or third choice to play on a short visit?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Ben Cowan-Dewar

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Re: Argentina
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2002, 02:05:03 PM »
Not to contradict Steve, but I had the chance to go last year and found the courses to be accessible (a cross between the UK and US courses).

Two people whose opinion I trust said that for the length of the journey it was not worth it.  Not trying to discourage, just adding the insight I gleamed.

Best,
Ben
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Lou Duran

Re: Argentina
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2002, 02:40:08 PM »
As Rich noted, I did indeed play the Jockey Club's Red Course on November 24.  It took great efforts by several people to get me on the course during my limited stay in Buenos Aires, and I am eternally greatful.  With a flexible schedule, genuine interest, and a strong desire, access is easier than Augusta National, but harder than at many large American CCs.  An inside contact seems essential, and you must play with a member.  The JC membership is very large, and the courses seem to get a lot of play.  It is a sporting club, with golf probably being less important than equestrian activites.

I would generally concur with the comments that playing the Jockey Club is insufficient reason alone to make the long trip.  Having said that, an important reason why I chose the itinerary that I did was the opportunity to play there.  I was not disappointed.

The Red Course has held numerous national and international tournaments.  At less than 6600 yards from the tips, on flat, near featureless ground, the Doctor designed and built (with Luther Koontz) a course that is defended by ingenious, undalating greens and surrounds with relatively few traps (though I managed to find a number of them) and a total absence of water (hazards).  The par 3s, relatively short with only one over 200 yards, are particularly interesting.  The par 5s are all reachable after hitting a precise drive to specific spots.  The 4s varied in length from a drive and pitch, to a well hit driver and long iron.  A premium is placed on the tee shot to attain the best angle to the green.

The course played relatively fast and firm, with the run-up shot a frequent option.  The greens are bermuda, perhaps an old tiff-dwarf variety, still overseeded with some winter grass (it was late Spring there).  The Argentinian economy is near collapse, and the course itself shows some wear and tear.  The traps are not well maintained, and the fairway turf can be spotty.  None of this affected my enjoyment of the course.

Both MacKenzie's "Spirit of St. Andrews" and Doak's book on the architect contain some information about the Doctor's South American ventures.  The CC of Uruguay, in the Montevideo metropolitan area across the river from Buenos Aires (1.5 - 2 hours by ferry and taxi) was also designed by MacKenzie.  I meant to go see the course, but other family commitments and a tight schedule made it impossible.

Some people that I talked to stated that the JC-Red is one of the top 5 courses in South America, with some saying that it was 1 or 2.  In my opinion, it plays to a similar level of difficulty as CPC, and it would be "ranked" somewhat lower than Pasatiempo.  Due to the flat, boring terrain and location near sea level, the greens and hazards do not have a natural appearance.  If the opportunity presents itself again to be in BA, I'll make every effort to play it again.    
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

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