[BCrosby]

The Ross drawings for Athens CC show 8-10 grass bunkers.   None still exist. A couple were nestled between fairway sand bunkers and would have heightened the penal nature of the bunker complexes. Others were located in isolation, in one case on the inside of an elbow.

The drawings give no specifications for them, though the bunkers located between fairway sand bunkers seemed to be drawn with very steep walls. But it is hard to tell what Ross had in mind.

There's a fine line between a swale and a grass bunker. I've wondered if Ross wasn't simply indicating a swale in his drawings rather than a distinct bunker with a grass bottom.

Does anyone have pictures of original Ross grass bunkers? What have restoration projects done about them?

Bob

[TEPaul]

Bob:

Now, this is something I'm extremely interested in. There're at least two of these on my course that're isolated and in a very interesting spot. At first I thought they had some drainage purpose but now I think they may have been bunkering that was never sanded. I'll be interested to see what turns up on this thread.

One of the things we both should consider is they may have just been places where fill came from. I think it's becoming fairly obvious with Ross, particularly in his early work that when he was looking to get something or to make something he didn't go very far to do it.

Some of the architectural areas and features of a course like LuLu (very early) I think are a real case study in this technique!

[Steve Wilson]

Mark Twain Golf COurse in Elmira NY is a Ross course that has very few if any sand bunkers but a plethora of grass bunkers.  I think it's been theorized that they were intended as sand bunkers but as Mark Twain was a WPA project the failure to put the sand in may have been an economic decision.  To my recollection, those grass bunkers are located where sand bunkers would have been.  There are others who post here who have more knowledge of Mark Twain  than I as my last visit there was seven years ago.

[A_Clay_Man]

I know nothing of Ross's but here the use of the grass bunker is genius. Maybe it's the lack of gauranteed penalty since the Sarazan wedge but they are a force to be puckered with whether on or near the fairway and especially greenside.

[BCrosby]

I agree, grass bunkers can be much more effective hazards than sand bunkers. You never know how that ball will come off the clubface. I would alsmost always prefer to be in a sand bunker.

On a couple of fairway bunker complexes at Athens, Ross angled grass bunkers between larger sand types. The whole complex is really striking on paper. Which is why I think they are worth restoring. The grass bunkers (or maybe they are steep swales) were clearly important to Ross. He took pains to draw them.

But I don't know how he wanted them to look.  

Bob

[Dave_Miller]

Bob:

When we were doing the restoration work at Charles River Ron Prichard suggested the use of a couple of grass bunkers and indicated these were indicative of Ross's work.

We did not change any bunkers to make them grass bunkers but there are some areas around the greens where you could argue that it is a grass bunker.

I'll check the original drawings and get back to you to see if they showed there.  I do know the use of grass swales was on the drawings.

Maybe someone like Brad Klein who is more knowledgeable about Ross's work could give some insight into this.

Best,
Dave  

[Steve Sayers]

Bob:

As TEPaul indicated LuLu does have several grass bunkers. Looking at early aerial (c. 1924) of LuLu many of the bunkers did not have sand.  It has been theorized that all the bunkers were intended to have sand but for economic reasons the club focused on what were perceived to be the “important” bunkers.  During the Depression some of the bunkers that initially had sand were converted to grass bunkers and others were removed completely.  

The Master Plan developed by Ron Forse calls for putting sand in the floors of all the bunkers several including those that never had sand.  I’m still struggling with this to some degree as these “grass bunkers” add uniqueness and variety to the course, in particular on #8.  The 8th has two great examples of “grass bunkers” one running across the fairway 40 yards short of a punch bowl green (in a small quarry) and another providing protection to the 9th tee to the left of the green. Send me your e-mail address and I’ll send you photos of these bunkers once the snow melts.

[BCrosby]

Thanks. I would love to see any pitures you may have.

Bob

[TEPaul]

Dave Miller;

Every now and then you might see something surrounding a green that might look like a grass bunker when in reality it was probably no more than a drainage swale.

We have that around our #5 and everyone always thought it was an old sand bunker that had the sand removed or never put in for some reason. It wasn't--it was just a drainage swale. This kind of thing obviously he did if a green had some natural grade to the side(s) of a green above the green's grade.

But if you're talking about the grassy depressions to the side of CR's #4, those are much more mysterious (because the natural grades off to the sides of the green's grade is below it, if I'm not mistaken)!

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