[NAF]

I was leafing thru the May 1933 issue of Golf Illustrated last week and stumbled upon a Tillinghast dedication to George Crump.  Perhaps some of you have seen it, but I thought I would share it as it is lovely marriage of words and dedication.

"In the Pines"

Strangely quiet is the valley
Through the clouds, the new moon shines
Now the whir'ling winds of winter
Brings a murmur from the pines
Listen to the moaning night-wind
For the whispers sadly say
"How desolate our valley
Since George has gone away"
Men may raise a tower of marble
And make words in chisled lines
But his true shine everlasting
Shall be here among the pines
In the hearts of those who love him
Deep in the hearts of men who'll say
"How desolate our valley
Since George has gone away"

[TEPaul]

Naffer:

That was Tillie's unique eulogy to his friend George Crump after Crump's sudden untimely death in 1918. If you come upon any other articles of Tillie's to do with Pine Valley or even the Philly School of architecture, I'd love to know where they are in those Golf Illustrateds. The arcticles I'm really looking for are the ones showing the debates between Tillie and JH Taylor on the merits or drawbacks of golf courses such as Pine Valley. Taylor apparently thought that that vastly more difficult style was both unaccomodating and almost undemocratic to golfers generally and Tillie was apparently vociferously defending what perhaps may be the inception of what became known as the rather unique "American championship design" which was geared towards the very good player almost exclusively.

[NAF]

Tom,

I plan on doing just that (going over Golf Illustrated articles) as the Tillie pieces are just classic.  Unfortunately at the USGA library now they won't let you photocopy any of the American Golfer or Golf Illustrated pieces to they are tough to transcribe!

BTW, Paul Turner and I saw a Pine Valley picture book at the USGA full of some brief comments on holes by Harry Colt himself.  Paul maintains it is H.S.' signature.  Had some of the best pix of the old PV I have ever seen.  I reckon they have similar ones in the clubhouse but never having been there I don't know..

[Paul Turner]

But some weeks are more important than others depending on the talent of the individual and particularly right at the beginning (routing)!  I don't think Colt made it back after WW1, although there is a letter in the back of his book "Some Essays..." from Toronto (or Hamilton?) Golf club in Canada, requesting that he return since the war was over.  

It's a great photo book.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Noel, Might I suggest doing this in regards to copying.

Take your digital camera and photograph it. While you may get a shadow or two, it still comes out pretty darn clear and adequate for transcribing when you get home.

For a sample, look at the In My Opinion piece I did on the Ralph Miller Library.

[Paul_Turner]

Tom P

Don't forget that long and detailed Golf Illustrated article (Jan 1915) by Simon Carr, Crump's best mate, which has Colt as the designer.  

I thought the routing that Colt drew up was certainly more than a stick diagram?

I'm sure Crump had some routing ideas, but as we can't read minds we have to go by what's written and drawn in early sources.

Where does all the info about the 5th, with Crump giving credit to Colt, come from?  I've heard it before, but never from an old source.  Is Crump ever quoted as saying this in an early source?  i.e. before he died?

I certainly wouldn't draw the strong conclusion that Crump had a fully fledged routing plan from this info.  Not after reading that GI article from Carr.

One thing I would definitely say regarding some of the very early photos, is that the resemblance between St George's Hill and Pine Valley is striking, particularly in the bunker style on holes like 3rd and 10th at PV vs 8th at SGH.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Tom Paul,
You are all wrong about Alison, Colt and Crump.

You see, if you look in one of the 1912-1918 (Sorry I can't remember the issue.) editions of Golf Illustrated, you will see a picture of George Crump, Hugh Whigham, and his new bride,(CB's daughter) standing on the #5 tee, which in "Papazian-speak" means that Seth Raynor more then likely routed Pine Valley.

[TEPaul]

TommyN;

I know, I know!

Not that long ago I was informed that Whigam said that Seth Raynor was once seen somewhere in the vicinity of Merion WEST and therefore Seth had to have designed that course too.

Alister MacKenzie was faster than a speeding bullet but the Sethman was a lot faster than Alister, that's for damn sure.

So, you say you're going out to Rustic tomorrow. Take a close look at the magnificence of the routing and all the architectural detail and report back to me because I designed that entire golf course, every square inch of it! I'll get out there to see how well I built one of these days!

[Paul_Turner]

Tom

All good fun!

Any idea what was finished by Jan 1915?  It's still 18 months after Colt was there, so a lot should have been built.  The remaining years would have been more about hole details, no?  Carr states that even the ponds/lakes had been made by then.  The article does strongly imply that Colt routed the course; and that the site had been cleared to reveal the contours prior to his arrival.  

I don't buy the Colt "signature design" argument (surprise, surprise)  Carr's article doesn't really sound like a sales pitch to me, and PV appeared to be the very opposite of a commercial venture. He actually states that the 200 membership is almost full (could be a ploy I suppose).

The only pic I've seen of Colt's hole booklet is that of the 17th in Jim Finnegan's book.  I've seen early pics of this hole and it looks very similar to how Colt drew it.  But it was changed somewhat when the forced carry was introduced for the approach probably by joining the two large, adjacent bunkers that Colt drew; from your post it sounds like Crump has added this in, on the routing plan.  The general hole shape, slight turn to the right, is consistent with the old aerial pics.

Each hole in Colt's book would need to be examined and compared with old aerial/pics, to get the full picture.   The forced carry from the tee shots may not be included in Colt's drawings, but I certainly wouldn't count this against his input since it's wholly consistent with early pics of Sunningdale, Swinley, SGH et al where he designed forced tee shot carries over heathery/sandy scrub.  However, the forced carries to a few greens at PV are somewhat different and looking at an old aerial pic say of the 2nd (Shackelford's book) you can even see old bunkers buried in the waste in front of that green.  Carr does mention the forced tee shot carries in his article.

The pics in Colt's photo scrapbook (sent to him by Crump, after he returned to England) are from before Crump died (1918), but I'm not sure exactly how early these are: holes 1-7,9,10,16-18 are shown with the 16th looking the youngest (grass very rough), so I assume these were the earliest constructed.

Just some idle thought about the general PV layout and Colt's philosophy at St George's Hill which he built immediately prior to travelling.  The pacing (sequence and spacing of long and short holes) and balance of the courses are quite similar with well balanced 9s, par 70 and two loops of 9.  Actually the pacing is almost identical for the back 9s of the two courses.

Of course this could just be coincidental and I don't know anything about Crump's general philosophy which may well have been consistent with Colt's.

One further point is that Carr suggests that each hole could be extended by 50 yards, but I thought this wasn't actually the case at PV?

[RCW]

Tillinghast reported regularly on the progress of the work at Pine Valley.  For a recap of those published reports, please check out this link:

www.tillinghast.net/news_14.htm

[TEPaul]

Paul:

In Jan 1915 eleven holes were finished.

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