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Mike Nuzzo

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Questions about "Routing the Golf Course"
« on: December 22, 2002, 11:02:49 AM »
Mr. Richardson,
First.  Congratulations on the great book.
Thank you.

My thought is for a general thread to ask you some questions about the book.
Last night the following chart caused me to scratch my head...

In the Site Evaluation section, pg 314, there is a pie chart of the results to the question:
"How many times is a golf course architect likely to visit a site before the routing process is completed?"

The results were:
37% visit once.
42% visit twice.
21% more than twice.

Could you expand on the results?
Does it take inherrited routings into account?
(i.e. Why would an architect visit a site if the routing is predetermined by the land planners?)
When was the data taken?
Do you think that the results will change over time?
Could you detail some of the more than twice responses?
Any more than 6?  Were there any zero site visit responses?
When is the routing process completed?
Was your response in the more than twice, slice?

This chart seems to get at the heart/beginning of the treehouses problem with current GCA.

Thank you very much.
cheers
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil & Tiger.

Mark_Fine

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Re: Questions about "Routing the Golf Course"
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2002, 12:41:10 PM »
Mike,
I'll let Mr. Richardson answer your questions, but I just wanted to say as well that he did a nice job with the book.  Everyone that actively participates on this site would enjoy reading it.  
Mark
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Mark_Fine

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Re: Questions about "Routing the Golf Course"
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2003, 02:53:19 PM »
I'm surprised this thread did not get more attention.  Richardson's book is a very good read as there is a wealth of information in it for those interested in golf course architecture.  Parts of it are too formulaic for me but so be it as there are few books on the subject of golf architecture where we agree on everything.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Questions about "Routing the Golf Course"
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2003, 03:48:49 PM »
Mark/,

I'm also surprised, in that even Forrest didn't answer, and he usually does.  Like you, those results seem pretty low.  I assume that his answers came from the same limited group of architects interviewed about the routing process, and perhaps a few more he happened to ask at other times.

If so, you have to remember that the results may have been skewed by the number of architects working in Asia, where it is more difficult to get to, and also where it doesn't matter as much, assuming you have a mountain site that must be blasted out or off.

I am reminded of my first trip to Indonesia to look at the site.  "Mr. Brauer, we have cleared all the trees so you can make your site inspection easier" was the first thing I heard.  Fortunately, that was only on part of the site.

Mike,

In my case, my closest project to you may have been a record low for visits during the routing process.  Lake Jackson is both flat, and totally wooded, with a heavy wild pig and snake population.  I saw all I needed to see (and not see) in two visits before preparing the final routing.  Walking it any more would not have yielded better results, I assure you.

At the Quarry, I counted about 13 visits before hitting on the final routing.  To be fair, I thought I had a final routing earlier, but then the environmental and engineering studies told me I didn't.  All was well, IMHO, as looking at the site again yielded the 6th and 9th holes, two of my favorites.

Most courses are somewhere in between.  I'll keep count on my next course, starting next week.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Forrest Richardson

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Re: Questions about "Routing the Golf Course"
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2003, 08:21:00 PM »
Sorry for the delay, Mike, I've been busy. Answers follow:

Does it take inherrited routings into account?
We were not specific in this aspect, so the answers transcend this. There is another question about inherited routings, so you can probably draw a conclusion on your own.

When was the data taken?
2001; see Pg. 26 caption for description of the survey.

Do you think that the results will change over time?
Yes, but I feel they are an accurate representation of the past several years and, probably, the next several.

Could you detail some of the more than twice responses?
We only gave respondents three choices: once, twice, and more than twice. All answers fell into these three; no one answered "zero".

When is the routing process completed?
We were not specific on this. I believe most architects would consider the routing process complete when the approvals are all in hand; i.e., entitlements, client, environmental, etc.

Was your response in the more than twice, slice?
Yes, usually.

Thanks for your interest in the book. I hope you are enjoying it, including all the tid bits of information and stories.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

Forrest Richardson

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Re: Questions about "Routing the Golf Course"
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2003, 08:22:33 PM »
The formulaic bits were included just to annoy certain people.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

paul cowley

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Re: Questions about "Routing the Golf Course"
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2003, 04:56:45 AM »
generally achieving a 'preliminary' routing is influenced by three factors.distance from one's home[four one day visits or one four day visit],budget,and the ease or difficulty of the site[most sites don't yield the varied options of a 'sandhills'.]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

paul cowley

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Re: Questions about "Routing the Golf Course"
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2003, 05:08:26 AM »
and i would add a fourth; the quality of topographic and base information one has while on site.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

Mark_Fine

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Re: Questions about "Routing the Golf Course"
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2003, 05:54:27 AM »
Forrest,
On the formulaic bits, at least you did make it quite clear that rules are meant to be broken!  :)

I very much enjoyed your book.  It's a great reference source as well.
Mark
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Forrest Richardson

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Re: Questions about "Routing the Golf Course"
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2003, 06:14:26 AM »
linksland -- Very good point about ease of getting to the site. These variables were not, obviously, defined in the questions. Perhaps they should have been.

Mark -- Thanks for the kind words about the book. I hope among the pages were a few surprises for you.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

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