[archie]

I have been looking at some redesign of the 12th hole at Greate Bay (Willie Park 1923) and have a few ideas. Number 12 was redone in the late 1980's as part of of a course renovation and I have been slowly dismantling the work to reflect the old style initiated by Park. This particular hole was considered the "signature" hole, that 1980's buzzword that is synonymous with awful to me.

The major problem to my idea is that our main line for irrigation runs right where I would like to rebuild the green. Has anyone out there dealt with this problem (successfully) without totally ripping our and rerouting the line, which is outside my budget constraints at present.  

I had hoped maybe a superintendent or architecture out there might have dealt with this previously.

[Tom Doak]

Archie,

DON'T build a new green over an old main line.  But it doesn't cost that much to move the main line -- not compared to building a new green, anyway.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Archie,

I would follow Tom Doak's advice.
What would it cost to repair a green damaged by a main break or leak ?  Probably far more than the cost to remove and reroute the main.  Why risk it ?

What do you estimate the costs to reroute the main line around your new green ?

What do you estimate the costs to remove that portion of the main line that would be by-passed by the above rerouting ?

What type of green construction are you employing ?

[TEPaul]

Archie;

I got a much better idea! Cap the damn main or just shut it off altogether and build WillieP's green right where you want it and it used to be! Just take the course back to the way it was when WillieP did it. I think they called that natural rainwater!

If that main supplies domestic water and such to the clubhouse and facilities just tell the people they can get used to going to the well if they want water or going to the bushes or the outhouse again for other things just like WillieP and his contemporaries!

[Don_Mahaffey]

As TD noted, it would be a very bad idea to build a new green over a main line. You will have some type of trenching equipment on site for the drain lines anyhow and pipe is cheap, so the cost of moving the line shouldn't be that much of an addition to what you'll spend to build the green. You'll probably be adding a new greens irrigation loop anyhow, so really your already spending the money for new irrigation.  Moving the main shouldn't add more then a few grand at the very most, unless you've got something really unusual. We recently rebuilt 3 greens. They averaged 5,500 sq ft, CA method construction, total cost with new irrigation >$50,000. Fortunately we found an excellent sand at a very good price (I believe it's the same sand used at the new TX Tech. course). The same work in AZ or CA would have probably been 30% to 50% higher because of the cost of sand in those areas. Of course we did most of the work in house, but we did hire an experienced shaper and an architect. I'm glad to share more info if your interested. DM

[TEPaul]

Pat;

Archie's green reconstruction method is called the "Modified South Jersey Quasi Perched WillieP Jr/ArchieS" method. You take and mix individual hand picked beach sand granules with cow manure and then mix in well 1/000 oz La Cumbre Koot guana per 1000lbs of the previously mentioned mix and it gives you drainage and a putting surface that's truly spectacular.

Is there ever going to be an end to me having to explain these commonplace things about architecture to you?  

[Patrick_Mucci]

TEPaul,

NO,

I continue to be enlightened by your erudite posts  

Despite what others say, I'm looking forward to seeing you next week.

[rj struthers AKA Archie]

Thanks to all of you who helped answer what I assumed was the obvious, don't do it! But of course you never know. Best wishes to all for a great 2003 and some fun golf !!!

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