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Evan_Green

  • Karma: +0/-0
Most Difficult Opening Hole
« on: January 03, 2003, 08:29:41 PM »
I would say that the most difficult opener I have ever played was #1 at Winged Foot West- however I wouldnt argue with someone who said #1 at Pebble Beach or St Andrews simply for the opinions of others' thoughts on the most difficult start in golf?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Evan_Green

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Most Difficult Opening Hole
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2003, 08:30:35 PM »
Let me try that message again:
I would say that the most difficult opener I have ever played was #1 at Winged Foot West- however I wouldnt argue with someone who said #1 at Pebble Beach or St Andrews simply for the INTIMIDATION FACTOR OF THE GALLERY OF SPECTATORS. I WOULD LIKE THE opinions of others' thoughts on the most difficult start in golf?


Quote
I would say that the most difficult opener I have ever played was #1 at Winged Foot West- however I wouldnt argue with someone who said #1 at Pebble Beach or St Andrews simply for the opinions of others' thoughts on the most difficult start in golf?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

A_Clay_Man

Re: Most Difficult Opening Hole
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2003, 08:43:50 PM »
The opener at Spyglass Hill is a tough par, even for the big boys. In 2000, the 5 or six pro's I witnessed play the hole had but one or two pars. The downhill fairway can be difficult to handle for the average golfer, the orientation of the green and the subtle slopes make it very hard on everybody.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Ran Morrissett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Most Difficult Opening Hole
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2003, 09:02:46 PM »
Evan,

I would say the hardest opening tee ball: Hoylake with OB hard right and clubhouse left - talk about nervy  :o

Hardest approach: Pine Valley with disaster known to be everywhere if you've played the hole before

Hardest green to finally  :-/ hole out: Oakmont

Hardest overall? Hard to argue with WFW but Chicago GC deserves consideration too even though I assume the Walker Cuppers can at least reach it in regulation, unlike 99.99% of amateurs.

Historically, Yale's 1st must have been staggeringly tough when it opened.

For a modern opener, Doak's 6 million yard long 1st at Wilderness Valley makes for a tough start, especially after the long cart ride away from the clubhouse.

Cheers,
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Mike_Cirba

Re: Most Difficult Opening Hole
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2003, 09:17:46 PM »
Oh...a LOT of really, really bad things can happen along the way to the sensory-overloaded golfer on the first hole at Sand Hills.  Just picking a line off the tee, then trying to figure out where to lay up to the narrowing fairway, and then trying to hit the spiraling greensite between a minefield of yawning chasms of sand is quite the wake-up call.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Michael S.

Re: Most Difficult Opening Hole
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2003, 10:54:41 PM »
What about No. 1 at Oak Tree?  It's a long par-four with an approach shot to a slanting green that is blocked by a tree.

No. 1 at the Prince course is impossible: a long carry from a downhill lie over a lake to a green with little depth.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Doug Siebert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Most Difficult Opening Hole
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2003, 11:54:36 PM »
I don't slice it often, but for those who do, the first at Prestwick has got to be nerve-wracking, especially with a train sitting on the tracks waiting to be hit by an errant shot!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
My hovercraft is full of eels.

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Most Difficult Opening Hole
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2003, 07:37:53 AM »
I have to agree with Ran that the 1st at Chicago (a long par 4) is difficult.  Follow that up with #2-3-4 and its a very hard opening.

I'll throw in the 1st at Shinnecock especially into the wind as one of the hardest.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tom Doak

Re: Most Difficult Opening Hole
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2003, 08:01:35 AM »
Most difficult opening tee shot:  1st at Secession, a very long carry over the marsh.

Most difficult holes:  1st at The Prince Course (highest "x" factor), 1st at Crystal Downs
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Jonathan Cummings

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Most Difficult Opening Hole
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2003, 09:12:32 AM »
Let the difficulty factor be dictated by the stroke handicap (even if that application is mis-applied).  What course starts with the number 1 handicap hole?  Generically, that has to be murder on a player throwing him, ostensively, the hardest hole before he is warmed up.  Although I am sure there are others, the opener at Toftrees at Penn State comes to mind.  

JC
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Evan_Green

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Most Difficult Opening Hole
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2003, 12:12:03 PM »
Come to think of it #1 at Pasatiempo isnt an easy opener either- its a difficult drive to keep it between the driving range on the left and the treeline down the right- The green isnt easy either nor is the 460 yardage of the hole (although downhill)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Most Difficult Opening Hole
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2003, 12:45:22 PM »
Evan -

I agree with you that the opening hole at Pasa being a difficult 4-shotter.

Many have written that its current set-up is a disappointment compared to when it played as a longer par-5.  You are right that the tee shot is not easy with the bowling alley effect caused by the trees (we could start a thread on the trees at Pasa like the thread at Olympic Lake) into the prevailing wind.  Coupled with a singular tree well short and right of the green, the well-bunkered and small green (a green that is probably too small for a medium to long iron approach shot) allows for an aerial or ground approach, giving options to the golfer.  I have more fear for #1 then #2 ...

http://www.pasatiempo.com/home/modules.php?name=Golf&file=shawntour
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"... and I liked the guy ..."

rpurd

Re: Most Difficult Opening Hole
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2003, 01:03:17 PM »
I concur with Mr. Doak, Secession is a tough opener.  For someone who has never played there especially.  You think you only have a sliver of fairway to hit, but in actuality you have a lot of room.  A few other tough openers:

Oak Hill - number one handicap hole on the course
Praire Dunes - playing into the wind a tough dog leg

I've always had a tough time off the first at Long Cove.  Dye's lengthly bunker on the right always seems to get me.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tim Weiman

Re: Most Difficult Opening Hole
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2003, 01:17:17 PM »
I don't regard the 1st hole at Secession as just a tough opener. It's flat out the worst opening hole in golf. Maybe okay as the 14th hole, but terrible to get a round started.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Most Difficult Opening Hole
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2003, 01:41:39 PM »
Evan Green,

I think there are several types of "difficult"

Surely, the first hole at Prestwick is difficult, for a variety of reasons, but, I'll birdie that hole far more often than I would birdie the first hole at WFW.  On the other hand, I'll probably make more double bogies and higher at Prestwick than I will at WFW.

Any opening hole with out-of-bounds or significant water in play is difficult.

In medal play, the short first hole at NGLA can be a birdie or a triple bogie.

First holes that focus the gallery, players and staff on a golfer create additional difficulties.  The first at Merion, at lunch time, is one of the most intimidating, as is the first at Riviera, Bethpage Black and many others meeting the above criteria.

Each golfer also has their own criteria for establishing difficulty.  A fader or Slicer won't like Prestwick, Quaker Ridge and others with dire consequences left.  A pull slicer sure won't like Plainfield or Ridgewood's west nine starting hole.

Added to the mix are courses with no range, or a far removed range, where the golfer hasn't had a chance to warm up, especially at a course with a recognized, difficult first hole.

Lastly, the brain and negative thoughts contribute to difficulty.  When a fellow golfer recounts how he made a 9 on such and such hole a month ago, and gives you a blow by blow of the blowout, that bit of information may overload the golfers mind, leading to further disaster.

Difficult holes are determined by the golfers particular game, their headset, the position of hazards/obstacles/boundaries, and their dislike of the spotlight.

Once it's in the air (assuming it gets there) there's nothing you can do, so Think POSITIVE, Take dead aim, and rip it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

rpurd

Re: Most Difficult Opening Hole
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2003, 03:01:05 PM »
Sounds like Mr Weiman has been in the marsh before on #1 at Secession.  I have talked to many a player who hates that hole because they can't hit it 200 yds to carry the marsh, that doesnt make it a bad hole.  Tough tee shot, tough 2nd shot (that pot bunker in front of the green is tough to get out).  Go right or long and you are in the marsh......an all around good opener.  Not the best hole at Secession by a long shot, but a good opener (especially when putting green is packed and all eyes are on you)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Andy Lipschultz

Re: Most Difficult Opening Hole
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2003, 04:49:51 PM »
#1 at the Prince. Difficult tee shot and then a harder approach. Unless you're playing at the "local" rate, you're then wondering if all that dough you just spent might have been better spent learning to windsurf. Both are aggravating but only one has girls in bikinis in the vicinity.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

austin

Re: Most Difficult Opening Hole
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2003, 08:09:39 PM »
Secession #1 is very tough when the tide is in. When it is out, there is no need to carry the hazard. It is not uncommon to see birdies made from the hazard. Over-all a bad hole.

Hard to argue with Pine Valley and Oakmont opening holes.

#1 at Elk River is a very long par four fronted by a very deep bunker and heavy rough right. It is the #1 handicap hole on the course.

The first at National in Pinehurst is one of the toughest and worst opening holes I've seen. Absolutley no place to miss the green.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

TEPaul

Re: Most Difficult Opening Hole
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2003, 09:33:49 PM »
Toughest hole to start a tournament on in my experience is Oakmont's #1--unless you're lucky enough to start on #10.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tim Weiman

Re: Most Difficult Opening Hole
« Reply #19 on: January 05, 2003, 12:30:15 AM »
rpurd:

My experience at Secession is limited to only one visit, but it included one of the best caddies I've ever had. After a nice warmup, we went to the first tee where I took one look and thought it was the worst opening hole I'd ever seen.

The caddy mentioned that many people felt the same way and advised hitting a three wood to avoid hitting through the fairway. Good call. I put it right in the middle of the fairway.

I enjoyed the course as a whole, but still think #1 is awful, almost beyond belief.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

brad_miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Most Difficult Opening Hole
« Reply #20 on: January 05, 2003, 07:46:17 AM »
Number 1 at Prairie Dunes is up there, from the back tee it plays close to 440 as a dogleg left, (the dogleg itself adds 25-30 yards) Great green complex with basically 4 very small greens within one. Normally plays into a good breeze.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Bob_Huntley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Most Difficult Opening Hole
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2003, 02:09:34 PM »
Tom Doak:

I must agree, No1 at the Princes Course on Kauai is probably the best opening hole in golf.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

John_Lovito

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Most Difficult Opening Hole
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2003, 02:14:43 PM »
This coming saturday many from this board will see one of the more difficult opening holes -- Alpine CC.  Very demanding second shot to an elevetad green.  Really good start to the course.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Ted O'Hearn

Re: Most Difficult Opening Hole
« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2003, 02:19:33 PM »
No. 1 at the Prince also has my vote.  You can easily lose two balls within two minutes.  I lost only one.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Most Difficult Opening Hole
« Reply #24 on: January 05, 2003, 02:33:27 PM »
John Lovito,

# 1 was the original 17th hole,
and # 3 was the original 1st hole.

I've never understood the change.

Making people drive in their car 1/2 mile to 1 mile to get to the current first tee, and then back from the current 18th green to the clubhouse is cumbersome at best.  While both nines currently return to the satellite clubhouse, I liked AWT's play of the golf course better.

But, my vote has been declared null and void.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

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